A dumb question about Muslims...

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amother

Fri, Jan 30 2015, 12:12 pm

Anon because I feel dumb.

Lately, I've come across both in real life and online a number of white Muslims. Even when wearing the niqab (?) where you can only see the eyes, and they're blue.

So, feeling dumb, are they converts? Where are they coming from? I thought all Muslims were originally from Arab countries (but weren't we also?) and were dark.

Am I totally off base? If I see a white Muslim with a southern accent who is blond and blue eyed, can you just explain this to me?

Again, feeling ignorant.

MagentaYenta

Fri, Jan 30 2015, 12:18 pm

Muslims are human beings. The color of their eyes, has little to do with their conversion status, they come in a variety of human colors, the same as Jews.

sequoia

Fri, Jan 30 2015, 12:25 pm

Most Muslims are NOT Arabs. Malaysia, African countries... the list goes on.

morah

Fri, Jan 30 2015, 12:31 pm

1. Muslim countries are not confined to the Middle East. Many African and Asian countries are Muslim.
2. Have you never met a sefardi with blue eyes? My husband is sefardi and while he looks pretty typically Middle Eastern, he does have numerous relatives with blue or green eyes, and it's apparently not that uncommon in their country of origin (which is a Muslim country).
3. Just like Jews, Muslims have in the past mixed with host nations. Intermarriage and all.

Scrabble123

Fri, Jan 30 2015, 12:42 pm

sequoia wrote:

Most Muslims are NOT Arabs. Malaysia, African countries... the list goes on.

Additionally many Middle Eastern countries are not considered Arab countries (Iran, Jordan, etc. etc.)

Anyways, yeah. Many come from mixed backgrounds or are converts to Islam themselves. Their genes may have just "mistakenly" become blue (probably less likely but possible). Children often don't have their full pigments developed so seeing an infant with blue eyes or a 2 year old with blonde hair does not mean that child will not grow up to take on darker features.

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jan 30 2015, 1:29 pm

Islam is a religion, not a race.

acemom

Fri, Jan 30 2015, 1:36 pm

Quote:

Islam is a religion, not a race.

THIS.

I assume the OP was talking about Arabs rather than Muslims. The two are NOT interchangeable.

You can find secular Arabs, Christian Arabs, Hindu Arabs etc etc. On the other hand, you can find Muslims from all nationalities.

nyer1

Fri, Jan 30 2015, 2:51 pm

All true statements made here. However, there are MaNY white Muslim American converts. I watched a documentary about it. Fascinating, actually.

amother

Fri, Jan 30 2015, 4:10 pm

There are many ppl from those countries, Jews amd Arabs that have green blue hazel eyes.. It has nothing to do woth intermarriage.. I am sefaradi and we have plenty of light color skin and eyes in our family even blonde and there wasn't any intermarriage .. I believe there are plenty of ppl from other countries with dark features too..

etky

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 12:24 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

OT but what exactly do you mean about Jordan not being an Arab country?
It is an Arab country par exellence. About half of the population is Palestinian while the majority of native Jordanians (including the Hashemites) are descended from Arab tribes who migrated north from the Arabian peninsula.

mominey

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 3:53 pm

I think that's what all the talk in the news is recently with people taking hostages, and everyone being afraid of radical muslims, the people seem to fear the "converted" muslims the most, the ones that grew up white, or black or whatever and somehow found their calling in radical Islam...

Raisin

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 5:43 pm

there are large muslim populations coming from the middle east, some african countries, Pakistan (most UK muslims are pakistani) North Africa, and others. Many white muslims are probably converts but there are also bosnian muslims and muslims in other parts of Europe who are light skinned.

amother

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 7:34 pm

Op here -
I guess I'm really thinking about all of the Muslim converts that seem so prevalent. Were there so many southern muslims? Meaning, am I to believe that the blond blue eyed girl with the hijab from America or with a southern accent is not a convert?

I know being Muslim is a religion and not a race, but how long were Muslims in other countries? Meaning, are there large old populations of Muslims in Eastern Europe? Italy?

Scrabble123

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 7:38 pm

etky wrote:

The term "Arab" has two applications/meanings:

1. Modern Times: refers to individuals who speak Arabic as their first/primary language (so there go Turkey, Iran and Israel and would including several African Countries and parts of other non Arabic speaking countries where individuals do use Arabic such as S. Western Iran)

2. Throughout History: refers to individuals from the Arabian Peninsula (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc.) Jordan is not apart of the Arabian Peninsula, although the term would apply to individuals who descended from those born in the Arabian Peninsula. Many people in Jordan are descendants from such individuals, but also have mixed or completely pure backgrounds of people who originally inhabited Jordan.... Anyways, I was pointing out that according to this usage, Jordan is not an official Arab country and therefore even if many Arabs moved to Jordan, they still may have married original inhabitants of the country, thereby mixing with their genes....

Muslim and Arab are not interchangeable. There are Arab Jews and Christians as well. Every single Jew from Yemen fits both usages of the word Arab.

amother wrote:

Well Muslims occupied Europe until they were expelled in the early 1600s. I'm sure that they married many European women and that is apart of their bloodline today. Many of those Muslims were of Arab descent, and many of them moved back to Arab countries (or probably Middle Eastern countries that you are referring to).... Have you ever heard of the Moors? They were Muslims mostly of Arab or Berber descent.

Raisin

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 7:43 pm

so I googled for you and apparently chechneyans are muslim and mostly blond. (chechnya is part of the former soviet union)

Much of the balkans are muslim but I think most people from that area have dark hair. But I'm sure there are some blonds.

Many middle eastern people are blond since there was a lot of european people going back and forth. (crusaders etc)

Mrs Bissli

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 7:44 pm

As raisin mentioned, there are several European countries with large indigenous Muslim population. Bosnia, Albania, as well as some part of Turkey and Russia/central Asia would fall in this country. They are legacies of Ottoman Empire--actually I'm amazed how many of the Sultanas (sultan's mothers and wives, not raisins) are typical blond and blue/green eyed. Italy has local muslim population but I believe the largest sub-group are Libyan immigrants (just like Jewish communities in Italy--esp Milan--includes Libyan immigrants).

mille

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 8:26 pm

Islam is a proselytizing religion. They actively seek converts. Not in the way that we are personally used to (like the door-to-door jehovah's witness type), but they do seek converts, unlike Judaism.

There are plenty of Muslim converts. But there are plenty of countries with a large Muslim population that can 'pass' for white, or otherwise non-arab. Islam includes 2 billion people among the world's ~7.5 billion population. So it's not surprising that they come from all different backgrounds, countries, and that some are 'born' into it and some are converts.

Also keep in mind... These blonde hair blue eyed muslim women will have kids one day, if they don't already. Those kids will be 'born' into Islam, not converts, even if they end up having light features. Or it could be that the women you see had parents who were converts, but she is 'born' into it.

morah

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 8:40 pm

Many Eastern European countries have old ethnic Muslim populations as mentioned above (this is different from the new immigrant populations in Western Europe). Also, the girl you mention could be a convert, but maybe her parents or grandparents are immigrants- from Iran or Syria (both have plenty of blond haired blue eyed people) or from the Caucasus region. It's a little racist to assume that someone who looks different than you'd expect couldn't possibly have been born that way. I had a Chinese classmate in graduate school who is a fourth generation American, and people would regularly compliment her on her perfect English Rolling Eyes

She didn't speak a lick of Chinese, BTW, because her family has been here so long. Oh, she also got a lot of "where are you from?", and then when she'd say "New York", they'd respond "No, I mean originally." Nobody asks European-looking people where they're "really" from, and most Europeans here are also only from 3-4 generations back (I'm only 1 generation back, my dad came here 30 years ago, do I get to call myself Franco-American?). But people make these silly assumptions because of how she looks. You got your answers here, so now you don't have to be that person making silly assumptions.

sequoia

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 11:46 pm

Bosnians look totally European.

Azeris typically have olive skin and dark hair and eyes, similar to Jews.

The poor long-suffering Crimean Tartars are also European in appearance.

youngishbear

Sun, Feb 01 2015, 12:23 am

morah wrote:

I think it's unfair to call OP racist for asking a question, politely worded, about variations in ethnicities and religions... If she would ask it directly from the subject that would be rude, but she didn't.

I also learned something new today. I didn't know that Muslims from eastern European countries were as devout and tradionally clad as those I'm more familiar with. Somehow I thought they were more westernized. Thank you whoever replied.

I also thought racism was a negative belief based on a stereotype of a race/ethnicity/religion. Does the story about the Chinese student qualify as racism? Or is it an example of rude stupidity, based on a stereotype?

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