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Why don't you vaccinate? (no bashing)
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 29 2015, 9:56 am
Just curious. Are you worried about autism? Or other issues? And what research is your decision based on?

Also, how healthy is your lifestyle otherwise?
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jan 29 2015, 10:13 am
Are you worried about autism?
Yes.

Or other issues?
Yes.

And what research is your decision based on?
Talks with my physicians (including but not limited to MDs);
Data, particularly from CDC itself;
Articles and books from many sources;
Anecdotal evidence;
Gut instinct.



Also, how healthy is your lifestyle otherwise?
B"H we eat a mostly organic diet of whole foods. Nearly no sugar or processed foods. We are all active, get plenty of sunshine, have avoided antibiotics and other pharmaceuticals for many years now with great results, kids are rarely sick and rebound quickly. We use natural soaps, toiletries and cosmetics. Don't eat food cooked in aluminum if we can help it. Filter out the fluoride from our water. I think I covered it.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jan 29 2015, 10:38 am
I have been vaccinating until now. Now I don't know how I want to move forward. I suffered from something that medical doctors couldn't help me with. I was desperate. My sister has a medical condition that top doctors couldn't bring down to a healthy level and she found a chiropractor that works through complete well being. I just went because I had nothing to lose, or rather everything to lose if I didnt. I see major results. I took all my kids and I see great results. One who needed tubes, doesn't now and one who suffered from severe headaches was "put back into place". One child had chronic ear infections and strept throaght back to back on antibiotics last winter. It wasn't normal. We are all on vitamins and not a ton of them. Basic, C D acidophilos... This doctor does not believe in shots. He sees the side effects. While I am still thinking if I have the courage not to vaccinate, I do realize that you can't just not do it without leading a healthy lifestyle. Arguing that the diseases are a major threat, I hear that. But, if children are given the tools to fight off deseases, that gives their body strength. Also, please don't forget that today we have more hygiene than before shots were introduced. Some deseases are directly from that. Its not so simple. Also, I am very concerned that the people who live with lifelong effects from shots, including some here, have doctors and community denying that its from vaccine when they have proof. To me it seems that people (the manufacturers?) are trying to cover up at all costs.

Do we need to prevent diseases? Absolutely. But, to say it doesn't have side effects? That is denying facts that make me wonder why they would want to do that.

I feel for those that got sick because they did not have shots and those that got sick from the shots.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Jan 30 2015, 3:19 pm
Raisin wrote:
Just curious. Are you worried about autism? Or other issues? And what research is your decision based on?


I can't answer that in one post.

But I will say that one issue that worries me is strain replacement. We've seen this with HiB and pneumococcal disease, and some say with pertussis and flu. The vaccine eliminates or drastically decreases the incidence of the strains it covers, and other, previously-rare strains (ETA: that are even more dangerous/are antibiotic-resistant, and therefore much more scary), become common.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 30 2015, 6:24 pm
This is a very interesting article. A balanced view of both sides, and a respectful tone. No easy answers here, but lots to think about.

So Should We Just Round Up the Anti-Vaccine Parents And Ship Them to Guantanamo?
http://www.theblaze.com/contri.....namo/
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baschabad




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 31 2015, 10:24 pm
Bashing seems to be an integral part of the vaccination debate, but if anyone is genuinely interested in hearing opinions, I suppose I could post mine.

No, seriously, vaccination is one of those things that random strangers who are not even parents feel the need to throw in their two cents about. I was talking to some friends at a coffee shop about vaccination and the waitress came by to comment that "the guy" (she didn't even know his name) who made up the vaccination/autism connection was proven to be a fraud.

That's how the media works; even d!ck and Jane can smear Andy Wakefield but no one has heard about William Thompson the CDC whistleblower...
Let's face it: choosing not to vaccinate is going against the grain, and mainstream society just doesn't like people like that. We're subject to all sorts of attacks on our mental capacity to make such a decision, jokes and put-downs and much more.

So when I say that I don't vaccinate, and that I've done my research on websites like livingwhole, vaxtruth and many other links that I've clicked, I'm fair game to be assaulted for not having read actual studies nor being competent enough to do so. Really... And I suppose that those who do vaccinate have read and analyzed studies? I am a layperson who trusts those who have done the analysis and questioned it if need be.
Same as those who trust the CDC and their analysis.

Vaccination only becomes a personal offense if one believes the herd immunity theory which is at the heart of the debate. Please understand that anti-vaccination individuals do not believe that herd immunity applies to a vaccinated herd. We do not believe that our non vaccination will make you or your child sick.

http://articles.mercola.com/si......aspx

Here's something else that I read recently; the sources are posted in the comments.
http://www.livingwhole.org/vac.....acts/

So, yes. I don't vaccinate. I'm afraid of autism, not in my children specifically; I'm afraid of recurrent ear infections, allergies and dozens of other illnesses that could occur, many which may never be pinpointed to a vaccine.
Basically, I'm afraid of the unknown. What I'm not afraid of is the measles, pertussis or chicken pox. My children are otherwise very healthy, BH, and from what I've read, these illnesses are treatable with vitamins among other things.

As I posted previously, I generally don't trust the mainstream, not when it comes to birth, health, schooling etc. Not vaccinating just fits right in with my ideology. Smile
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amother


 

Post Sat, Jan 31 2015, 10:36 pm
So, yes. I don't vaccinate. I'm afraid of autism, not in my children specifically; I'm afraid of recurrent ear infections, allergies and dozens of other illnesses that could occur, many which may never be pinpointed to a vaccine.
Basically, I'm afraid of the unknown. What I'm not afraid of is the measles, pertussis or chicken pox. My children are otherwise very healthy, BH, and from what I've read, these illnesses are treatable with vitamins among other things.

If you believe these diseases can be treated by vitamins, I have a bridge to sell you.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Jan 31 2015, 10:39 pm
Are you worried about autism?
I'm worried about autistic like symptoms. I know a healthy baby that immediately after a vaccine started showing unusual autistic like symptoms. She never showed any of these symptoms before the vaccine. It occurred immediately after the vaccine. These symptoms seem to be permanent. The child is not the same anymore. The mom has not given her kids another vaccine since. She's pretty certain that the symptoms have something to do with the vaccine. It's possible that she was genetically predisposed to autism and the vaccine triggered it. If this can happen I'm wondering why doctors can't test children before their vaccines to determine if they have that genetic predisposition to autism. If they do, they can avoid the vaccine.

Or other issues?
I read dr. Sears book on vaccines because I am considering a delayed vaccine schedule for my child and I was hoping that the book would reassure me that vaccines are ok. After reading about the ingredients in each vaccine I am even more scared to give them. Besides for the live viruses that some of the vaccines contain, they contain msg, antibiotics, fermeldahyde, and other toxins that are poisonous to the body and these will be shot directly into my toddler. I've also read into vaccine injuries, side effects people get from vaccines, and vaccine injury law suites, some reactions to vaccines are deadly and some are not as serious. But these cases are real and who's to say if I vaccinate my kids, they won't get one. Once I vaccinate, Ican never undo that decision. It'll be too late. I'd rather not intentionally put harm into my child and hope that his g-d given natural strong immune system will fight a disease he might (and the chance is quite small, and the chance of it being deadly even smaller) get exposed to. Additionally, you will not find a doctor out there that will take responsibility for a vaccine injury. Even side effects that people are open about and considered normal scare me (Brain swelling, fever, crying inconsolably). Something that is safe would not cause those reactions. Last but not least, If we were required to give 1, 2, or 3 vaccines, I would most likely do it. But to inject 20-30 vaccines into a young child is extremely frightening to me. Im also concerned about the long term effects vaccines might have that are not known yet.

How do u do your research?
I read multiple books. I read multiple articles. I spoke to my doctor. I asked people who vaccinate about their experiences. I asked people who don't vaccinate about their experiences. Personal observation.

How healthy is your lifestyle?
I try to maintain a healthy lifestyle. I stay away from processed foods. I buy mostly organic whole foods. I eat white sugar or white flour very sparingly. I don't eat products that contain msg or food coloring. I eat a lot of raw fruits and vegetables. I breastfeed. I hate formula. I would use donated breastmilk before I would give my baby formula if I wasn't able to breastfeed. We cosleep. We avoid antibiotics and other drugs. I dont use epidural. Bh we are healthy. I'm not vaccinated. I have a couple of siblings, all not vaccinated. Bh we never had any of the "vaccine preventable" diseases besides the chicken pox. And those of us that had it did not have complications from it bh. Half my class had it when I did and none of them had complications. Most of my extended family on one side are not vaccinated nor are their children. 2 out of about 25 had one of the vaccine preventable diseases and were fine, no complications.

I'm anonymous because there is some identifying information here and because I don't want to be disrespected for my decision. People seem to think unvaccinated people are contaminated or something. We should have the right to decide what we put into our bodies and not be forced to do something we feel is dangerous against our will.
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baschabad




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 31 2015, 10:50 pm
amother wrote:
So, yes. I don't vaccinate. I'm afraid of autism, not in my children specifically; I'm afraid of recurrent ear infections, allergies and dozens of other illnesses that could occur, many which may never be pinpointed to a vaccine.
Basically, I'm afraid of the unknown. What I'm not afraid of is the measles, pertussis or chicken pox. My children are otherwise very healthy, BH, and from what I've read, these illnesses are treatable with vitamins among other things.

If you believe these diseases can be treated by vitamins, I have a bridge to sell you.


Another, really, what happened to "no bashing"? Are you personally offended that I would try to treat pertussis with vitamin c? To the extent that you have to be anonymous?

Here's what I've read:
http://www.vaccinationcouncil......s-md/

You are in no way obligated to trust or respect my source, but you are expected to be respectful of me.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Jan 31 2015, 11:10 pm
When the then British Prime Minister Tony Blair was asked if he vaccinates his kids...he did not respond. Till true reports came out that he does not vaccinate his kids.
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rednavy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 01 2015, 1:07 am
amother wrote:
When the then British Prime Minister Tony Blair was asked if he vaccinates his kids...he did not respond. Till true reports came out that he does not vaccinate his kids.

Are you sure this is correct?
They refused to answer at the time as they didn't want people asking all sorts of family/personal questions.
In his wife Cherie Blair's autobiography written several years later, she confirmed that the child in question was indeed vaccinated.
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liora25




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 01 2015, 1:31 am
There was one comment that insinuated that those that do vaccinate don't do research
So I do vaccinate, and although I have not done research , and in general I would not rely on the Internet for such serious matters, I do trust my doctor, who has done her research , and she will not even take a patient who has not been vaccinated , so I trust her research, more than my unqualified research.
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baschabad




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 01 2015, 2:16 am
liora25 wrote:
There was one comment that insinuated that those that do vaccinate don't do research
So I do vaccinate, and although I have not done research , and in general I would not rely on the Internet for such serious matters, I do trust my doctor, who has done her research , and she will not even take a patient who has not been vaccinated , so I trust her research, more than my unqualified research.


It's important to put your trust somewhere and I'm glad you found someone who you consider competent in this matter. I just want to point out that most doctors do NOT do their own research and instead depend on whatever they were told in medical school and by the journals that they read which are generally one-sided.

For that reason many people do not trust their doctors. Additionally there are many doctors who have done research and do not vaccinate their patients.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Feb 01 2015, 2:38 am
Even though it's not confirmed that the MMR causes autism -I've heard many people say that right after their kids started with the symptoms. Many kids that were vaccinated still got the measles they say they should be revaccinated. So we see that vaccinations are quite risky. My Dr cooperated with me and started late by about 9 months to a year and spaced them and he gave them half doses. This way I felt it's easier and safer
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 01 2015, 3:02 am
baschabad wrote:
It's important to put your trust somewhere and I'm glad you found someone who you consider competent in this matter. I just want to point out that most doctors do NOT do their own research and instead depend on whatever they were told in medical school and by the journals that they read which are generally one-sided.

For that reason many people do not trust their doctors. Additionally there are many doctors who have done research and do not vaccinate their patients.


This. Except, I don't buy that we have to trust anyone. It comes down to, what are you willing to risk, the possibility of your child getting sick, or the possibility of a vaccine reaction.

The people who choose not to vaccinate say that giving a vaccine feels like playing russian roulette with their child's well being.

OTOH, if you don't vaccinate, and your child gets one of those terrible diseases and requires hospitalization because of it, you are likely to get treated like a child abuser.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Feb 01 2015, 3:31 am
The People that do not vaccinate are usually safe because almost everyone around them is
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liora25




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 01 2015, 5:37 am
baschabad wrote:
It's important to put your trust somewhere and I'm glad you found someone who you consider competent in this matter. I just want to point out that most doctors do NOT do their own research and instead depend on whatever they were told in medical school and by the journals that they read which are generally one-sided.

For that reason many people do not trust their doctors. Additionally there are many doctors who have done research and do not vaccinate their patients.


I trust my doctor with all other aspects of my child's health, why would I not trust her when she says vaccinate ?
I'm almost positive she, and countless other doctors are not saying so blindly.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 01 2015, 6:56 am
One more question: What would you do if say, measles or mumps was going around your area?

Thanks for the responses!
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baschabad




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 01 2015, 9:35 am
liora25 wrote:
I trust my doctor with all other aspects of my child's health, why would I not trust her when she says vaccinate ?
I'm almost positive she, and countless other doctors are not saying so blindly.


I'd make a differentiation between vaccinating and assessing a broken wrist, for example.
Vaccines are medicines, requiring studies to be proven safe and effective, produced by manufacturers and sold to medical professionals the same way all medicines are. Ever seen the soaps and notepads at a doctors office, sponsored by pharmaceutical companies?
Doctors may take a short course on how vaccines are supposed to work, but they have not been required to sit poring over the studies that prove it, or had to think critically about what they are being told.
Many doctors have not even read the vaccine inserts, which list possible side effects. It may be a little forthright to do so, but try asking your doctor if they have read it, and why they don't provide it for patients to read before administering vaccines.

Considering all the factors, trusting your doctor on vaccines and trusting them on broken wrists are very different.
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baschabad




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 01 2015, 9:50 am
Raisin wrote:
One more question: What would you do if say, measles or mumps was going around your area?

Thanks for the responses!


Mumps did go around my neighborhood. 😊 (Brooklyn)
I caught it, I don't even know how. It was extremely uncomfortable having swollen glands and I was pregnant at the time. I think my son (unvaccinated) showed some symptoms but it wasn't serious at all and wasn't diagnosed. I stayed home during the course of it and otherwise took care of myself.

Nobody I spoke to, doctor or midwife seemed panicked about my condition so I just went along with it. I wasn't given the impression that I was about drop dead and in general my experience made me less concerned about these illnesses.

Measles is in most cases, an uncomfortable rash and fever. I read an article about how it wasn't feared years ago when children routinely got it.

As far as I know, the risk of it being deadly is very small. So while I don't wish sickness upon anyone, if it happens, we'll let it run it's course and daven that everything will go well, as with everything else! And most often, it does.
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