Doctors will not see patients with anti-vaccine views

Frumdoc

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 12:19 pm

Think1st wrote:

http://www.unicef.org/immunization/files/the_history_of_polio.pdf

At its peak, polio paralyzed and killed up to half a million people every year, before
Jonas Salk invented a vaccine in 1955.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/polio.html

Polio reached a peak in the United States in 1952, with more than 21,000 paralytic cases. However, following introduction of effective vaccines, polio incidence declined rapidly. The last case of wild-virus polio acquired in the United States was in 1979, and global polio eradication may be achieved within the next decade.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil......olio/

So you are tying to convince me that the drop in polio cases in 1952 should be credited to the vaccine project of 1955 LOL

There wasn't a drop in 1952, there was a peak. It was an epidemic disease, that means there were peaks and troughs.

Read this for some figures.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm.....3032/

theoneandonly

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 1:38 pm

Think1st wrote:

eastsidemother

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 3:07 pm

imaima wrote:

This argument is used against Jews in the religious circumcision debate...

Circumcision is considered a medically safe procedure (as far as any medical procedure can be safe). Doctors and hospitals do not seek court orders to interfere with circumcisions.

However, I have seen court orders issued when a parent refuses medically necessary blood transfusions based on religious belief. A court recently intervened when a child and her mother refused chemo for Hodgkins Disease, which is about 90% curable.

Courts tend to get involved in issues that involve life or death scenarios for the child, or issues that impact public health.

Others may disagree with circumcision in general but it is not a medically unsafe procedure and has been found to have health benefits of its own.

Think1st

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 4:06 pm

Frumdoc wrote:

Give me details of these amazing schools where no one has ever been vaccinated and not a single kid has any of these diseases and I will review the data. And if you're right, then I will definitely consider highlighting it to the public health team who will consider where and how this miraculous school achieves it, without declining admission to anyone on health grounds.

A whole community without sickness, that would be great to investigate.

BTW, it isn't the doctors with a flat earth religion, that would be a totally different group of science deniers. Maybe that is where you are confused. You don't know how to identify a doctor, so you ask around if someone believes in the flat earth theory, and if they do, you call them a doctor. Oh dearie me. So much to learn. Maybe you should go to med school yourself so you can discover all that science stuff?

http://nymag.com/daily/intelli......html

"Unvaccinated children tended to be white, to have a mother who was married and had a college degree, to live in a household with an annual income exceeding $75,000, and to have parents who expressed concerns regarding the safety of vaccines and indicated that medical doctors have little influence over vaccination decisions for their children.

"http://www.generationrescue.org/resources/vaccination/cal-oregon-unvaccinated-survey/

http://www.rense.com/general85/cant.htm

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_......html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pr.....ates/

http://vactruth.com/2014/02/26.....hier/

http://www.ageofautism.com/201......html

amother

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 4:34 pm

imaima wrote:

I don't see the logic. So you didn't have him vaxed even though you didn't have the result of the test yet?
And if he has an abnormal result, are you sure that vaccination interferes with it?

And if a doctor confirmed to you that it does interfere, then why don't you provide this info to the ped to have your child medically exempted?

Sounds to me like she didn't have him vaxed because she didn't yet have a pediatrician because of insurance problems. He only missed one dose. Unless the doc asked if she's not planning on vaxing that sounds pretty odd.

My pediatrician fully supports my decision to delay or not vaccinate. He told me not to bother with specific ones because they are not dangerous (though uncomfortable and inconvenient) and have side effects (intussuception from rotavirus etc). So far my baby isn't vaccinated but I haven't made final decision yet. One thing I do know is that vaccine safety is NOT covered fully in most medical schools and doctors are very much taught to blindly follow cdc recommendations which are skewed. Several (no, I'm not saying all) vaccines don't make sense to give (ie hep b to a two day old child of a mother who does not have hep b).

Dolly Welsh

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 4:53 pm

This may be of interest:

"One of the key points made by scientists about the urgency of containing that disease is that the more the virus spreads, the greater the chance that it’ll mutate into something even more lethal. Anti-vaxers are giving illnesses like measles little human laboratories to produce new strains that might threaten vaccinated kids too.

Forget about changing the minds of vaccine skeptics who have strong opinions on this, though: One recent study found that not only is it basically impossible to talk vaccine skeptics out of their position, a public information campaign by the CDC can actually make them less likely to get vaccinated.

Which means that the anti-vax view among young adults could be steady for a long time. Gulp.

Exit question: According to a much-praised Hollywood Reporter piece published last year, the anti-vax movement in L.A. that’s produced so many new measles cases is basically a class phenomenon, not an age phenomenon.

It’s affluent Hollywood parents who are keeping their kids away from the needle, not the poor. In today’s YouGov poll, though, those making less than $40,000 a year split 51/33 when asked whether children should be required to be vaccinated while adults who earn more than $80,000 split 67/26. How to reconcile all that?

Is the L.A. anti-vax phenomenon just some sort of odd upper-class … fad?"

Emphasis added. That is from this:

http://hotair.com/archives/201.....ults/

Frumdoc

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 5:09 pm

Think1st wrote:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/03/some-nyc-schools-show-dismal-vaccination-rates.html

"Unvaccinated children tended to be white, to have a mother who was married and had a college degree, to live in a household with an annual income exceeding $75,000, and to have parents who expressed concerns regarding the safety of vaccines and indicated that medical doctors have little influence over vaccination decisions for their children.

"http://www.generationrescue.org/resources/vaccination/cal-oregon-unvaccinated-survey/

http://www.rense.com/general85/cant.htm

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_......html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pr.....ates/

http://vactruth.com/2014/02/26.....hier/

http://www.ageofautism.com/201......html

t

Sorry dear, but none of your sweet little links give me a statistical study demonstrating a school with a zero percent vaccination record, a zero percent asthma, ADD and autism record. Find me your special school and we might talk tachlis.

Meanwhile, please feel free to investigate entry requirements for med school so you can have the privilege of self treating and not inflicting yourself on the evil pedophiles and murderers who are trying to outdo amalek by vaccinating the little kinderlach.

Better yet, move to a country without a health care system and go all natural, we'd be delighted to know how you get on without the herd protection provided by the other children being vaccinated and the checks and balances that the FDA and local authorities provide - like clean water, verifiable food sources and sanitation.

Any minute now someone's going to come along and remind us that gravity isn't science, it is "nature".....

Dolly Welsh

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 5:18 pm

The Times has this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01.....;_r=0

At the end of it is this hilarious statement by an anti-vaxxer:

“It’s good to explore alternatives rather than go with the panic of everyone around you,” she said. “Vaccines don’t feel right for me and my family.”

I am gaga with stupefaction at her use of the word "feel" about a matter where what you "feel" has no meaning.

Feel.

Feel, she does.

Feel.

Love it.

Think1st

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 6:32 pm

Frumdoc wrote:

http://www.vaccineinjury.info/......html

Gov dragging feet on this for 2 years

https://www.govtrack.us/congre.....mmary

Sticking your head into sand is always an option

out-of-towner

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 6:49 pm

Think1st wrote:

http://www.vaccineinjury.info/vaccinations-in-general/vaccinatedunvaccinated.html

Sticking your head into sand is always an option

Will you please stop it with this line??? It's getting old. There are plenty of us on here who HAVE done our research, and still chose to vaccinate. And honestly, quoting sources from a website called Vaccine Injury is really going to give balanced information right???

And about kids with vaccines having a higher rate of asthma, cancer, or whatever else you want to prove is cause by vaccines: There are PLENTY of other factors that could contribute to that. Taking a few college and graduate level research courses could help you to understand that. 100 years ago people may not have had cancer or asthma, or they might have died before the could have been diagnosed with it because medicine at the time couldn't diagnose such things. Or what about that idea that 100 years ago people ate differently than we did. There was no food coloring or many of the chemicals that we are exposed to now. Any number of those foods or chemical products (household cleaners, the abundance of vehicles that produce loads of CO2 in our air) could contribute to the rise in cancer, asthma, or whatever else you want to prove that vaccines cause. Maybe the cause of less asthma in unvaccinate children is due to the fact that their families don't use chemical household products? Or don't give their kids foods with artificial coloring. Or MSG for that matter. Or non-organic produce. Correlation does not equal causation.

I hope I make sense.

Dovi'smom

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 6:52 pm

I keep on seeing posters refer to the hep B shot given at two days old, and how insane that is. You're right, of course. So don't do it!

This is a great place to point out that being an informed parent is a good thing. Please tell them at the hospital that you will vaccinate your baby against hep B at your pediatrician's office. My pediatrician actually recommends giving it at two months.

And I'm totally, completely, pro-vax. Just not hep B right after birth when there isn't a plausible reason for it.

Scrabble123

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 6:56 pm

Think1st wrote:

http://www.vaccineinjury.info/vaccinations-in-general/vaccinatedunvaccinated.html

Gov dragging feet on this for 2 years

https://www.govtrack.us/congre.....mmary

Sticking your head into sand is always an option

Um. I know an unvaccinated child with Asthma, and another with ADHD. I don't even know that many unvaccinated children so I doubt that they are exceptions. My grandmother had Asthma in Europe. Read some Holocaust books where people describe their families pre war: plenty of asthmatics, allergies, and elderly dying of diseases. People also did not live as long as we do today and did not always have access to appropriate medical care..... Children who were asthmatic were more likely to die from an attack without proper help or dye from diseases like the Flu for which we have a vaccine today. I had a great great grandmother who gave birth to 18 children of which only 6 survived childhood. They all died of different diseases. It's terribly sad, and that is not something that we see today. Did I mention great-great grandmother? That was before vaccines, Think1st - I can only imagine how many more of her children would have survived with modern medicine. Why do you think that so many people lost babies and children years ago? Why do you think that any infection was considered serious? The Ksav Sofer had diphtheria when he was a child and his father devalued to Hashem for fear his son would not survive from this VACCINE PREVENTABLE ILLNESS... BH The Ksav Sofer did survive, but many children before vaccines were not so lucky (actually many children living in third world countries without access to medical care are not so lucky today)

Dandelion1

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 7:25 pm

This "debate" is so silly. If G-d forbid, there was an Ebola epidemic here, on the same scale as the polio epidemic of past generations, and there was a vaccine available, these rich "educated" 1%ers would be mowing down the rest of us in a mad rush to make sure they and their kids got vaccinated first. And we'd be reading articles about how the rich and famous were abusing their wealth and power to get the vaccine ahead of everyone else.

It is only in times of peace and abundance that people with too much time and resources at their disposal have the luxury of creating problems where there are none.

MiracleMama

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 7:48 pm

Dovi'smom wrote:

Just wondering... why no plausible reason for it right after birth but good reason for it at 2 months?

black sheep

Sat, Jan 31 2015, 8:00 pm

Think1st wrote:

One walk through upper class schools with most kids UN-vaccinated & Asthma ADD & Autism unheard of should cure any MD of their flat earth religion

My one non-vaxing friend has two very hyper children, and one has athsma and allergies. Never received a single vaccination, yet her 5 year old daughter's school told her that she must be treated for ADD or she will not be allowed to return to school. This is my non-vaxing friend.