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Forum -> Relationships -> Giving Gifts
What gift did u give for s/o that took your child for 2 wks
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amother


 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 3:03 am
amother wrote:
I seriously don't get why posters are making OP feel like an awful mother for making a decision that is right for her family.

I think this is one beautiful aspect of living in such a community, that taking in children other than your own is a natural and warmhearted chessed.

If ch"v children needed to be "farmed out" (hate that term) for medical or serious reasons, it is that much easier to do in a community where it is normal to do so in less dire circumstances.

Again, no 2 year old was permanently damaged from being away from mommy for two weeks. I'd love to meet the superwoman who bonds with the entire family while figuring out nursing schedules and recovering from an episiotamy or c-section. More likely the whole family is thrown into chaos, in any case.

And yes, absolutely, with excellent postpartum care and family support many women there are not resentful of having many children.

In any case, the younger generation is spacing their children farther apart, and planning their family more than in the past. But that's basically irrelevant to poor OPs question.

It bothers me when posters twist something nice around to say ah, no wonder they have a million babies, they abandon them each time they get a new model.

Kids (older than 2 so that's still a tough one) can understand there is an emergency and Mommy and Totty REALLY want to be there for them but they need to go to the hospital. Still, I think when treatment is fairly local the kids VISIT. They don't go weeks on end without seeing their parents and have communication cut off so Mommy and Totty can focus solely on the baby that will now take away their own attention. It's one thing to have the kids sleep somewhere else for that length of time but to willingly not see them for something as little as having a baby, even with a c section is cruel and unusual punishment for a child and saying they will adapt is silly. Of course they will adapt they have no choice. But someone who can treat their child like that, repeatedly, probably shouldn't be having that many. And everyone else doing it doesn't make it better. It actually makes it quite sad.
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 3:09 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Im just wondering where the father is in these families? I think it could be a very nice system, maybe to a family member, but why not have them stay home, with the other parent and someone come help for a few hours a day? Why leave home altogether?


I'd assume the father may be at work at an average of 8-10+ hours day, leaving him not very capable of caring for his other children. It would be nice if new fathers can get two or so weeks of 'maternity leave'.

Also, to me it doesn't sound like the other kids are being sent to strangers. More likely a close family member, like Auntie or Grandma.


Last edited by tigerwife on Wed, Mar 04 2015, 3:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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myself




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 3:09 am
Maya, perhaps in today's day and age when people are more family planning 'savvy' families would limit their family size if the support wasn't forthcoming, however most families didn't have this system 50 or so years ago and they still had large families.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 3:14 am
tigerwife wrote:
I'd assume the father may be at work at an average of 8-10+ hours day, leaving him not very capable of caring for his other children. It would be nice if new fathers can get two or so weeks of 'maternity leave'.

Also, to me it doesn't sound like the other kids are being sent to strangers. More likely a close family member, like Auntie or Grandma.

I work 15 hour days but I still come home to my kid at night and try working on days that the schedule allows limited babysitting time because my husbands hours are flexible. I don't say hey I gotta work so let someone else raise my child. Will never happen. So 8-10 hours really not that impressive. They have a responsibility to their family. No one said it's always easy but farming kids out sounds so wrong.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 3:15 am
tigerwife wrote:
I'd assume the father may be at work at an average of 8-10+ hours day, leaving him not very capable of caring for his other children. It would be nice if new fathers can get two or so weeks of 'maternity leave'.

Also, to me it doesn't sound like the other kids are being sent to strangers. More likely a close family member, like Auntie or Grandma.
Im sorry, I was in the hospital for something last year. My husband told his boss and he worked it out to go a bit later and leave from work a bit earlier. I think a father has to do what he can. And please dont tell me that many fathers cant do that. You do what you have to do for your family, children.
And Im not talking about time off from work, just rearranging his schedule.
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musicmom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 3:34 am
A gift card or something fancy, like a manicure or spa.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 3:43 am
kitov wrote:
Arbah midos b'adam....shelee shelee v'sheloch sheloch. zoi midos sdom.

Nice. Very nice.

You don't know what kind of limitations I have which prevents me from caring for other people's kids for two weeks.

But one thing is sure. We can always count on your wonderful Chassidish middos to personally insult me. You're an expert at that, I know. What I'm doing is middos S'dom, but what you're doing is what? The middos of a tzaddik?
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:11 am
Why can't people just answer the flipping question?? Someone who watched your kids for 2 weeks deserves something really nice. Maybe sponsor 2 weeks of takeout. Or a spa. While I personally don't get the sending away for 2 weeks things, why the need to harp on it WHEN IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED? I could understand telling a poster to rethink things if she hadn't already done it. But here she has clearly stated that she already did it. What good does it do to bother her about it now?
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5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:23 am
So she doesn't do it again. So that other women will think twice before sending young children away for an extended period of time.
It's wonderful to have a support system, but that's no substitute for the security of home. As others have posted, let the kids go to family and friends during the day and sleep at home at night.
If that's too much, ask a friend or relative to sleep over to help with bedtime and waking up. But sending a young child away for two weeks should only be an option in the most dire of circumstances.
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:39 am
So start a new thread on the topic. It's not nice to derail someone's thread. I happen to agree that there are other, better options. But this is not the place to do. Also, the idea of educating the op "not to do it again" is extremely condescending. She didn't leave the kid for 2 hours in a car, she left him with trusted caregivers temporarily. Again, not something I agree with, but hardly a matter on which I feel the need to educate someone on the Truer And Better Way. She's a responsible adult making reasonable, if somewhat controversial, decisions.
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happybeingamom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:41 am
morah wrote:
Why can't people just answer the flipping question?? Someone who watched your kids for 2 weeks deserves something really nice. Maybe sponsor 2 weeks of takeout. Or a spa. While I personally don't get the sending away for 2 weeks things, why the need to harp on it WHEN IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED? I could understand telling a poster to rethink things if she hadn't already done it. But here she has clearly stated that she already did it. What good does it do to bother her about it now?


Thank you!

I have a large family, the most I sent my kids away was for a Shabbos, so even if I disagree I won't bash. The truth is I know many kids were sent away and they are just fine, their relationship with their parents are just fine.

Bottom line it is not something I would do but at the end of the day the kids are fine.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:55 am
If the kids knew the person, weren't so young, and came to visit the mom daily or so, I would say great.

And, it's cultural, folks (my old quote lol)

Look, my cleaning lady is very sick, and my dad told me "why doesn't she just send the kids away a few weeks". He himself was sent away. (modern) heimish parents, chassidish type grandparents etc. Cultural. I just made the link with his comment now...

Quote:
Everyone I have discussed this with agrees that women would have fewer children if these two weeks of "kimpet" were not available to them. That leads me to believe that these women are not making intelligent decisions regarding their family planning.


No, it means they rely on it because it is their culture. And in another setting they would have to adapt and they know it. Many women would have more or fewer (or try to!) if their husband was better or worse, if they didn't work, with more or less money... it even works like that in animals, too. People are making their decisions on what IS there.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 4:58 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Im sorry, I was in the hospital for something last year. My husband told his boss and he worked it out to go a bit later and leave from work a bit earlier. I think a father has to do what he can. And please dont tell me that many fathers cant do that. You do what you have to do for your family, children.
And Im not talking about time off from work, just rearranging his schedule.


YUp. There are moms who work full time and (much) more, too.
My very chassidishe great grandfather zal raised 10 kids when my great gmother passed.
Btw, I see some posters speaking of leave, well, some countries give paternity leave.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 5:04 am
I don't think ALL women would have less children if they didn't have this help. Maybe some women would. My mother has a large family and she got almost zero help after each baby. Not many relatives to help out. No meals. No one to take kids.

But then again this is part of the whole culture which in general is geared towards large families. Kimpeturin homes, bikur cholim meals, parents expected to buy expensive baby gifts and host new parents for shabbos etc.

Also it might be partly to do with the USA which has almost no vacation time and no paternity leave. So even if a father wants to be a hands on dad he can't afford to without taking a pay cut.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 5:11 am
Look, I do something differently than you!!! Therefore you are wrong and must become more like me!! No excuses tolerated!

(This thread, in short)
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amother


 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 5:47 am
I didn't have a baby in a while and my kids keep begging me to go on vacation or have a baby . They WANT to go to cousins or bobby.it's a treat to to an aunt ,the kids usually have a mini slumber party with the guest and the guest is treated like someone special. As opposed to being home and they are side tracked. Its interesting that there are thousands of secular articles of how to deal with older children when there is a baby. I thought it's so grand for them why I'd there jealousy if they are bonding with baby and mommy at 2 days old oh and also there aren't alot of siblings so why aren't they on a high with a baby?
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eli7




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 5:50 am
kitov wrote:
Arbah midos b'adam....shelee shelee v'sheloch sheloch. zoi midos sdom.


I reported this post. I think it's just unacceptable to imply that a poster has the values of Sdom. Those who express concern about this system do so precisely because we care about the children involved and see all Jewish children as "ours."
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 5:55 am
eli7 wrote:
I reported this post. I think it's just unacceptable to imply that a poster has the values of Sdom. Those who express concern about this system do so precisely because we care about the children involved and see all Jewish children as "ours."


While that post wasn't nice, don't fool yourself. Those expressing concern do so because they feel so high and mighty and wonderful when they bash others and put them down. Or because they're jealous that they don't have a support system. Or both.

I think it's unacceptable that op came here asking for a suggestion how to do hakaras hatov, and instead got an earful of how she is a terrible mom and destroyed her kid for life, along with a bunch of negative comments about "that community" which even if it wasn't explicitly said, we all know which community "that community" is.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 6:10 am
mommy2b2c wrote:
While that post wasn't nice, don't fool yourself. Those expressing concern do so because they feel so high and mighty and wonderful when they bash others and put them down. Or because they're jealous that they don't have a support system. Or both.

I think it's unacceptable that op came here asking for a suggestion how to do hakaras hatov, and instead got an earful of how she is a terrible mom and destroyed her kid for life, along with a bunch of negative comments about "that community" which even if it wasn't explicitly said, we all know which community "that community" is.

I gave the OP advice pertinent to her question.
I also didn't bash the concept of giving a child away for two weeks. I don't think it has lifelong effects on the child at all.

But of course, that doesn't matter. All that matters is that I said something else that didn't appeal to someone, and she saw red because she is in such denial about her community, she goes wild at the slightest mention of the negative.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Mar 04 2015, 6:57 am
Maya wrote:
Just to clarify, I think it's a ridiculous system. I don't give my kids to anyone and I don't take others either.

The main issue I have with this system is that mothers are less responsible when making family planning decisions because they figure they have all this built-in help and assistance. I bet you all that if the practice was eliminated and mothers would have to have all their children home two days after giving birth, they'd stop getting pregnant every eighteen months. Which, in turn, would lead to more functional homes.

Just my opinion.

But if you ARE giving your kid away for two weeks, $75.00 is not enough of a "gift."


Theres something to what Maya said. I don't live in a community where it's the norm to send your kids to friends after birth, and I don't have family that lives close enough or the ones that do I wouldn't fee comfortable sending my children to. It defintely is a consideration I have re planning my family because I don't have this "assumed" support system.
(I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with this system im just saying that it can be abused)
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