Satmar protest against Israel/Netanyahu's speech

Barbara

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 11:12 am

Heyaaa wrote:

He assumed that he's the spokesperson for the Jewish people bec he assumed that all Jews don't want more than half of our nation to be murdered in one blow. Do you disagree?

Oh, of course. If you don't agree with Netanyahu, you must want all Jews to be murdered.

I think that it is Netanyahu's warmongering policies that endanger Israel. And I think that Netanyahu is more concerned with Netanyahu getting re-elected than anything else.

I think that it is in Israel's interest to have an agreement with Iran, so long as there is real oversight.

dancingqueen

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 11:15 am

amother wrote:

The Satmar opinion is that this snub of the US president could lead to even more antisemitism in America amongst the population. In general, the Zionist state was founded with hisgarus beumos (can't transliterate this, not sure exactly how to), basically that its existence incites the nations of the world against us. Sadly, he was very right with that.

They feel it is important to point out that Judaism does not equal zionism, and that just because someone out there opposes the State of Israel does not mean you need to hate Jews.

(FTR, the Rebbe also said that a nonjew who hates the State does so not because he read the Rebbe's sefer but because he hates Jews. So I'm not sure exactly how he hoped to change that with protests, but he believed them to be vital in his fight against the kfirahdig State.)

Me? I'm just annoyed that the kids came home early from school on such a hectic day...

As I think others pointed out, forget the state of Israel, sadly our very existence as Jews seems to incite the nations to hate us. And seeing some Jews protesting each other, showing publicly the sinaas Chinam amongst us is a huge chillul Hashem which makes others dislike us even more for our lack of solidarity.

Ftr, even if you disagree with Netanyahu's speech to congress (I'm on the fence about the whole thing). Please be aware that he was invited to speak and accepted. He said that he couldn't stay silent In the face of another genocide which whether you agree with the rest of his politics does strike a chord with many of us.

Barbara

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 11:23 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I "liked" your post for its civil tone and I am largely in agreement. I don't know if it was politic for Netanyahu to come. But I definitely have reservations with the US trying for an agreement with Iran. Some of the soundbites I've heard from the WH show a lot of naivete. And I need to look into this more to see if my understanding is simplistic, but is it true that the focus on a deal with Iran is leading to the US being on the wrong side of the Russia-Ukraine issue?

I'd like to think that we can all agree that the goal is to prevent Iran from making nuclear weapons.

We may have different opinions on how to accomplish that, but that doesn't make opponents evil.

WRT to the Russia-Ukraine issue, I think the US is on the right side. I'm guessing you disagree. You support Russia on this?

amother

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 11:26 am

Please, people, if you want to discuss this you have to keep it civil.

Regarding the "disappearance of the State of Israel" conundrum, it's weird because there is no real scenario that's pleasant to contemplate. The Rebbe opposed the formation of the State and lamented its existence, but he did NOT wish for it to be wiped off the map in a way that causes bloodshed ch"v. Whoever thinks so doesn't know anything about his tremendous ahavas yisroel (whatever you may think of his followers notwhithstanding.)

This is the tragedy of the State - it's existence is a reality, and we cannot imagine how it might peacefully cease to exist so that Moshiach can come and rebuild Yerushalayim to its true former glory. We don't have answers or solutions, but as I said, it's about declaring to Hashem and the world that we do not stand on the side of those who claim to have the power to defend themselves by their own strength against another holocaust (right... so why do you need Congress, Mr. Netanyahu??)...

PinkFridge

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 11:31 am

Barbara wrote:

Re Iran oversight: permanent oversight? What happens after 10 years?
Oh, and re Russia: no, obviously the US isn't supporting Russia. But I've heard that the US hasn't been as supportive as they can be to the Ukraine so as not to jeopardize the Iran thing. But I have to look into this more carefully.

Mevater

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 11:36 am

amother wrote:

While Im not sure that the writer of this post is a Satmar woman, I suspect she might be, and if not, that there are others here who are Satmar, who are defending the Rebbe's anti-Israel position. As far as the Rebbe's opinions and feelings, would he approve of any Satmar people being on Imamother? How would the Rebbe have dealt with women known to be on Imamother? You cant pick and choose what you like and dont like and consider yourself a really devout Satmar person, supporting all the Rebbe's beliefs. Who says the Rebbe would have liked women on Imamother any better than those who support Israel?

Its a changing world, my friend.

Again, how would the Rebbe have dealt with women known to be on Imamother?

Last edited by Mevater on Wed, Mar 04 2015, 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total

Heyaaa

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 11:38 am

amother wrote:

He needs congress bec this world runs with derech hateva. If Hashem can perform miracles, why did esther have to go in to achashverosh??

Besides, he went to the kotel before he left.

Barbara

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 11:39 am

PinkFridge wrote:

If they can come up with a deal that actually works for 10 years, I'd be thrilled. I think most people would be.

I guess in 10 years, you renegotiate. Based on conditions that exist then. Ten years is a long time.

PinkFridge

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 12:06 pm

Mevater wrote:

I appreciate the conundrum of how certain people you wouldn't think would be here are. But this is a philosophy that people can have, even if they're not Satmar, or stict adherents. This is not my mesorah, and I'm also saddened that people like today's NK purport to be the face of it.
I don't see this amother as strident, or thinking that the IDF are evil incarnate, etc. If, as she supports, ahavas Yisroel is the primary goal, one treats everyone involved with respect, even while disagreeing.

amother

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 12:40 pm

Mevater wrote:

Right... because understanding and agreeing with the Rebbe's shittah on zionism means I agree with every single thing he wanted... isn't that what is so often decried on this forum, not thinking for yourself? I don't wear a shpitzel, either. Oh, and I've peered into a chimish from time to time, despite the Rebbe's views on the matter. So no, I never said I agreed or followed all his beliefs.

Since the Rebbe's shittah is not halacha, I don't see the problem in taking what I like and leaving the rest. It's called balance.

Sequoia and others, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just want to say that there is a viewpoint behind the protests that is more thought out than some amothers seem to think. Go ahead and support the state of Israel if you wish, I am not asking you to agree that it's existence is a tragedy for Am Yisroel. But please do not equate zionism with Judaism...

Thank you. I shall now get off my soapbox and attend to the ribbons and cellophane I didn't get to finish yesterday...

amother

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 12:44 pm

amother wrote:

To allow the school employees to attend, I guess.

For what it's worth, I agree that allowing Netanyahu to state that he is the spokesperson for the Jewish people and leave that unchallenged is not very wise.

There is a woman by the name of Allison Joseph who has an org called Jew in the city. She claims to be representing Orthodox Jews and utilizes social media and travels the world to speak about orthodox jews. She is also a Bal Teshuva and doesnt wear stockings (as in she doesnt cover her feet). Are you ok with her representing you, a Satmar woman who believes that women should cover their feet? How is she different than Netanyahu representing you?

amother

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 12:45 pm

Heyaaa wrote:

He needs congress bec this world runs with derech hateva. If Hashem can perform miracles, why did esther have to go in to achashverosh??

Besides, he went to the kotel before he left.

Esther followed daas torah. She did not proclaim Never Again, and believe to have the answers. She begged the yidden to fast and daven, as she did as well. Her main hope was Hashem and she did hishtadlus.

What a comparison to Netanyahu.

And lol about the kosel. Do you know about the Satmar view on that?

amother

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 12:57 pm

amother wrote:

Is Josephs lobbying for specific actions from my government and insulting its leader on behalf of a State I don't support? Are her actions interpreted negatively, and possibly make us appear more loyal to a foreign country than the malchus shel chessed we live in?

I don't get the comparison.

Scratching Head

P.S. I love her videos. Despite not agreeing with every word she says. I might enjoy listening to Netanyahu's speech, too, despite disagreeing with his message. I know my fellow Satmar friend did. Wink

amother

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 12:59 pm

sequoia wrote:

Yes, we know about the satmar view of the kotel. Again, not really relevant to those of us who subscribe to the opposite viewpoint.

We disagree not out of ignorance.

I was addressing Heyaaa, because it seemed to be a point in his favor in her eyes. And I agree that for him it most certainly is a sign of acknowledgement of God. It was merely ironic to me in the context of her post.

Barbara

Wed, Mar 04 2015, 1:02 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Really? I thought he said something in the speech about 10 years not being all that long.

He's a politician. He can spout "not long enough." But if a navi came and said, "Pssst. Jews. This thing will hold for 10 years. No nukes in Iran for 10 years. After that, we'll see," he'd take it. He'd have to, because I've little doubt that the Israeli people would take it.