Was Esther together with Achashverosh?

spring13

Thu, Mar 05 2015, 12:19 am

marina wrote:

Look, it was a huge honor to be chosen as the King's wife.

Well, it was an honor for her to be made queen, but being taken into a harem wasn't much to write home about, unless your alternative was abject poverty. You were taken without much say in the matter, because you were petty or your father had political connections. You maybe slept with the king once or twice, and then spent the rest of your life stuck in the palace among a bunch of cranky, bored women in the same boat, surrounded by cranky eunuchs who kept you from going anywhere or meeting anyone outside. You probably never saw your family again, never got to have a real marriage or family of your own, and had to deal with plots and rivalry and cattiness from the only people you could spend any time with. And for Esther, to be the only Jewish woman among people who most likely didn't have much nice to say about that...she had plenty of reasons to want to hide or to think she was getting a raw deal, even if she weren't married to Mordechai (and that's not something I ever took seriously, it's so totally not pshat).

DrMom

Thu, Mar 05 2015, 1:25 am

marina wrote:

Look, it was a huge honor to be chosen as the King's wife. I just can't imagine that she actively resisted and didn't want to participate in the contest, etc.

She could have made herself ugly, so many other things.

Are you serious?

The pshat clearly says that Achashveros ordered his servants to gather all the pretty young women in his kingdom. "Participating in the contest" wasn't a choice on her part.

Achashveros's oversized ego and absolute intolerance for disobedience was already clearly established in his actions toward Vashti. Do you realy think Esther could have said, "gee, I'm honored, but no thanks?"

Mother 4

Thu, Mar 05 2015, 7:43 am

I haven't read through the whole thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned. I asked my husband if Esther was together with Achashveirosh, and he said there is a midrash that says it was a 'shin-daled' that looked like Esther.

Ema of 5

Thu, Mar 05 2015, 8:30 am

One thing I don't see mentioned at all.... I remember learning specifically that Esther did NOT do anyhing to enhance her beauty, so as not to attract the attention of the King....she did not WANT to be picked.

bigsis144

Thu, Mar 05 2015, 1:39 pm

eema of 3 wrote:

It's right there in the text (2:15) -

Quote:

15 And when the time came for Esther, daughter of Avichayil uncle of Mordechai, who had taken her as a daughter, to go to the king, she did not ask for a thing other than that which Heigai, the king's chamberlain, custodian of the women, had advised. And Esther found favor in the eyes of all who saw her.

imasoftov

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 5:34 am

Heyaaa wrote:

I doubt the megilla would be so flattering about achashverosh as to call his thingy golden.

It sounds totally made up.

I would not say this is an actual midrash without a source (but neither would I say that there is anything too outlandish to possibly have been written somewhere). But it has occurred to me too that touching the tip of the scepter is suggestive (but a suggestive act is not the same as what it references). Or maybe that's just me.

imaima

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 7:24 am

eema of 3 wrote:

Esther is mentioned as one of the few women in Tanach, who had exceptional beauty. Even though it is known that she had a "green face", she possessed a lot of charm and chein which made her very deisrable for men.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Mar 10 2015, 9:57 am

The scepter in the megillah belongs to "Hamelech", not "Hamelech Achashverosh" -- where Hamelech refers to Hashem. So while there is a physical scepter on this earth, it is just a symbol for one above, and I find it a queasy thought to put allusions to certain body parts of Achashverosh being such a symbol.

imasoftov

Wed, Mar 11 2015, 9:48 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Read up on Yesod. I'm not joking.

PinkFridge

Wed, Mar 11 2015, 5:58 pm

imasoftov wrote:

Read up on Yesod. I'm not joking.

What is Yesod? I googled it and got links to Haskell language, Kabbalah, and R' Zalman Shachter Aloni. That's the first two pages.