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How would you deal with this?



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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 7:57 am
DS age three 1/2 is very rigid and has full blown tantrums which often last for an hour whenever things don't go his way or are done differently then he set out in his mind. His tantrums totally take over the whole house and is very disturbing to our other children, especially since he can have several tantrums in one afternoon.

DH and I have differing opinions on how to deal with it -

My approach - I try very hard not to give in to his idiosyncrasies and to stay calm. If say he wants something which I don't allow, for example he wants cookies before dinner I will just calmly repeat that we can't have cookies until after dinner and make sure not to give in. Other times, I stay calm and reassuring but stay firm in my decision. I was hoping he would eventually realise that throwing a tantrum doesn't help but things don't seem to be improving...

DH thinks that if I were to punish him he would learn his lesson.

Your thoughts and ideas will be most appreciated. Smile
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mo5




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 8:07 am
I think you're right.
Your child's tantrums are not done to be bad- they're having a hard time managing and regulating emotion (so rather than just being a bit disappointed about the cookie- it explodes)
A book that's been suggested on IM before "the explosive child" is really helpful to understanding and helping children with explosive tendencies.
"Punishing" would actually be confusing to the child and he won't learn any lessons.
In general at that age, a natural a logical consequence is the way to go.
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acccdac




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 9:39 am
I dont think you need to punish but there needs to be a "consequence" to his behavior.

I have strong memories of my parents telling me to stop crying and me thinking "but I have no control of it, how am I supposed to stop?!?!?!" I see my daughter doing the same thing, she can turn the tears off and on when she wants but when she is having a tantrum and I use the following method on me she'll tell me "I cant stop" (99% of them time I do not use the phrase "stop crying, there is nothing to cry about")

When I feel my dd is reaching the amount of time that is normal to cry for disappointment I calmly say "You dont have to stop crying or stop being sad, but you cant be HERE crying. If you would like you can continue crying in your room." If she doesnt stop I pick her up and put her in her room. I repeat, "you are not in timeout, you can come out as soon as you stop crying" I usually give her her comfort object and I walk out. Yes she has pleaded that she doesnt want to be alone, and I just repeat, "you are not in timeout, you can come out whenever you want, you just have to not be crying"
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 10:17 am
There is series of workbooks that deal with emotions and its designed especially for children. Its written by a frum mental health counselor who has years of experience working with children. I just bought the Jealous book and thought it was great! You can try getting the Angry book and read it with him when he is calm and come up with solutions as to how to deal with his emotions. Heres a link to the series of emotion books by Esther Adler. http://www.brightawareness.com/in_print.html
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 12:59 pm
My dd is 4 1/2 and would also cry (and cry and cry) and though she never verbalized it, I could tell that she was unable to stop. I started "teaching" her other ways to express herself. By telling her that maybe she can say 'I am so upset because...' or 'I am so disappointed bec....' it would help her feel better. When she does listen and try it; I make sure to stop what I am doing, look her in the eyes and validate what she is saying. Then I give her a big hug and kiss and tell her I am so proud of her and she is getting so big.
It really seems to help. She has been having less and less crying fits.
But 3 1/2 is probably too young for that. Maybe this will give you some food for thought though.
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Nomad




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 1:40 pm
I agree with the other amothers - punishing for these tantrums wont work. Your child wont make the connection and it won't resolve his behavior. Definitely stick to your guns, but it sounds like your dc needs to learn some ways to calm himself because his emotions are just out of his control. He probably just stops tantruming out of sheer exhaustion after an hour. This is a good opportunity for him to learn to express and control strong emotions. Lot's of things might help...maybe going to a quite place, hugging a favorite stuffed animal, playing with a favorite toy, taking a sip of water, talking about feelings...there are many strategies and I would follow some of the advice of the posters above.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 3:12 pm
Thanks for all your suggestions! I'll comment in order -

I'm a big fan of 'The Explosive Child' and try to follow it as much as possible but discussing potential explosions in advance doesn't seem to work with him. Perhaps he's too young.

Sending him to a different room as a consequence doesn't work either as he doesn't stay there unless I hold him which sort of defeats the purpose. Any other consequence ideas?

Amother, thanks for the book suggestion, I'll look into it.

I don't generally tell him to 'stop crying', I just validate him every now and again and then get on with things as though he's not crying. He is generally very good at expressing himself when he's upset but once he get's into tantrum mode it's out the window. The only way to calm him down is with a bottle of water but it only works once he's been crying for a while, if I give it too early he won't accept it. Occasionally he'll start again after he's finished drinking.

It's difficult when one child's behaviour takes over the whole house and everyone suffers. I wish there were easy solutions but alas, raising children ain't easy!

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penguin




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 3:36 pm
From John Rosemond:
Quote:
Question: How do you stop tantrums in a 3-year-old? My daughter never went through the “terrible twos,” but began throwing wild tantrums shortly after her third birthday. This coincided with the birth of a sibling, a boy, but she’s very affectionate and helpful toward him so I don’t know if there’s any connection. I’ve tried everything I can think of to prevent and stop the tantrums — things I’ve seen recommended in various places — but nothing has worked. She throws one whenever she doesn’t get her way. Help!

Answer: Tantrums are fairly common in toddlers and even if properly handled can persist well into the fourth year of life. Furthermore, they occur with or without the birth of new siblings, so one can never know whether or not your second child was the trigger. In your case, given that your daughter shows no jealousy otherwise, I rather doubt that her younger brother has anything to do with her meltdowns.

In my estimation and experience, the standard advice given concerning tantrums is not generally helpful. One website offers six methods, including what they call the Yuk It Up method, in which the parent begins doing silly things like dancing around and singing loudly. Yes indeed, that may be enough of a distraction to stop a particular tantrum, but it will not solve the problem.

The same website also lists whispering, ignoring, repeating the rule over and over again (e.g. “You must hold my hand in a parking lot, you must hold my hand in a parking lot ...”), trying to engage the child in a game, and picking him up and holding him close. The question becomes, which of the six recommended methods should a parent use at any given time? And how long does one try a method before going to another?

To be brutally honest, having raised two kids who threw tantrums as toddlers and having counseled many, many parents of tantrum-tossers, I give these six recommendations a rating of “fairly worthless.”

When my daughter Amy was 3, she began throwing tantrums. They began as protests over green things on her plate and quickly expanded from there to include anything and everything she didn’t like. After floundering around for several weeks, my wife and I identified the downstairs half-bathroom (aka powder room) as Amy’s “tantrum place” and told her that she could only throw tantrums there.

“These tantrums you’re having,” I said to her, “are very special things, Amy, so you need a special place in which to have them. We’ve decided that this bathroom is going to be that special place. See? If you scream so loud that you have to use the potty, there’s one right here! And there’s a rug you can roll around on! And you can even get a drink of water!”

From that point on, whenever she launched into a fit, we simply directed her (or took her) to the bathroom. “Come out when you’re done!” we’d say, closing the door. Immediately, the tantrum would stop. Then, a minute or so later, the door would open and Amy would appear, scowling. To be honest, it was hard to keep from laughing.

Her tantrums stopped in no time at all. On to back-talk! It never ends, does it?
(see more here.)But my favorite is his story about passing his daughter's room & hearing crying. See this: - it was her bear, Bumpo, in his special screaming place!
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 4:09 pm
If it's only the cookies, I would, where the other kids could not see him, slip him a cookie or two. He will go along with the program when he's older and can cope better both cognitively and physiologically.

But at that age, in a growth spirt, getting hungry or low blood-sugar can be unbearable.

Children in general have no reserves, no deep muscle, and cannot, and should not, be hungry or tired.

But about other stuff, that's another thing.

You say he is rigid.

Just make sure it isn't you who is rigid.

Lots of good advice up there.
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mommy1108




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 6:50 pm
Agreed to the poster above. It is first and foremost the most critical to analyze your own behavior (and your husband himself) and make sure you are modeling flexibility and easygoing-ness. I myself had to work on myself to be chill and flexible in order to ease my sons rigid attitudes.

We have worked a lot on this and seen quick results.

We also adopt the cool calm reactive attitude. We stay firm with the nos but know that punishing or reacting to his tantrums keep the emotions on high.

Recently my husband has used a new trick where he tries to redirect the whole situation. If the kid is tantruming because he wants cookies for breakfast, we remain calm and say no sorry that is not breakfast and then after a little, we try to engage him in a totally unrelated conversation.

My husband was able to describe various types of luggage to my son for 5 whole minutes and totally distract him from the explosive topic.

Hatzlocha rabba. Hope this helped even a little
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PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 7:15 pm
Mommy 1108, my husband has the same tricks!
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anonymrs




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 19 2015, 10:25 pm
Great suggestions here as far as parenting is concerned. I just want to point out that there are times that such behavior could be due to another unidentified issue. How is your child otherwise?

How verbally expressive is he?
Is he able to identify any emotions?
Is he able to follow multiple step directions?
How does he handle transitions? Particularly from one type of activity (noisy/wild) to another type (calm/quiet)?
Does he ever show anxiety? Social anxiety?
How does he react to touch? Sounds?

Just some things to think about. If any of these are a concern to you, it may be worthwhile to explore further.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Mar 13 2015, 6:31 am
OP here. I also often use distraction, and am pretty flexible myself so I don't think that's the reason.

How do I get DS to stop getting upset all the time. It's really not about the cookies, everything triggers a tantrum...

Some examples:

- DS brought home a letter from school addressed to DH so DH took the envelope and opened it... DS had a tantrum for the next 30 minutes as he wanted to open the envelope himself.
- He'll want something that belongs to another child and will scream endlessly that it's his when it isn't.
- The kids are all piling in the car and DS will get into a tantrum because he wanted to enter the car first.
- He'll cry when I give him a drink as I put the water first and juice second when he wanted me to prepare it the other way around.

I don't know... it's as if everything upsets him...
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amother


 

Post Fri, Mar 13 2015, 6:34 am
anonymrs wrote:


How verbally expressive is he? Pretty expressive
Is he able to identify any emotions? Not sure
Is he able to follow multiple step directions? Isn't he a little young for that?
How does he handle transitions? Particularly from one type of activity (noisy/wild) to another type (calm/quiet)? Seems fine
Does he ever show anxiety? Social anxiety? A little
How does he react to touch? Sounds? Fine



OP here. Responses above.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 13 2015, 7:00 am
Keep keep doing what you're are doing. It's perfect. Patience and more patience. Ask your DH not to punish, but if he insists, let him deal with the consequences of a more enraged child.

Just dont give in to unreasonable demands from your child. Let him learn to deal with his frustration. Even if that means he has to CIO.

I think the hardest part of this situation is helping the rest of the family cope with the tantrum. It hurts our ears, makes us all nervous, sometimes even embarrasses everyone. Plus it gives a general sense of helplessness because you can't control the screaming once it starts. It's really ok to encourage the other kids to put their fingers in their ears to protect themselves from the painful noise, if that's the case. Sometimes turning up fun music helps everyone, too. Or on shobbos, singing loudly over the screaming. Bottom line is, everyone else counts, too, and they need a way to cope, a way to let off the stress caused by that child's tantrum.

Your DH is apparently stressed from this as well, so do validate his feelings, too. Maybe he needs to figure out away to cope, as well. Right now, he's considering punishing, because he's desperate for relief.

As this child gets older, you can start using cognitive therapy with him. You can try using logical reasoning to challenge his frustration.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Mar 13 2015, 11:21 am
Here are somethings that I use:

1) Role play and talking it through when he is not having a tantrum. I find that my kids realize that crying is not the answer but they need help thinking of ways of how to stop crying and what to do to express that they are upset but not a full blown tantrum. The next day after a big tantrum, talk about the tantrum and why it doesn't get them anywhere and and talk about what the child can do to calm them-self down - see item 4 below for an example.
2) Think before saying no to something because once you say"no" it is usually best to follow it through unless circumstances have changed. Be consistent and don't give in - because they learn really quickly that if they cry long enough or act out enough you will just give in.
3) My kids know I don't give attention to tantrums. I usually say something like: "You are having a tantrum and Mommy doesn't listen to tantrums. Let me know when you are ready to talk calmly." Then every time they approach me during the tantrum - or try to escalate the tantrum I remind them like a broken record in a calm voice " Mommy doesn't listen to tantrums". For my bigger kids sometimes I clarify that the way they are acting (screaming, talking chutzpadik...) is like a big kid version of a tantrum and then I start the broken record of "Mommy doesn't listen to tantrums"
4) When they have cried for awhile - I come over at some point and say "do you need me to help you stop crying" and they know what that means because we have talked about it in role playing and we have done it before. Basically for my young child it is a blowing or breathing routine with counting. Sometimes they will continue to cry when I ask them that and then I come back like in 5 minutes and ask again and sometimes then they are ready. My routine goes something like this:
I face the child (sometimes holding them as well or caressing them) and tell them to take 5 blows or breaths (which ever works best for your kid and age). I remain facing them with direct eye contact and I count with them the number "1" and then they give a big blow. Then we say "2" and repeat till we get to five. Some times we have to repeat all 5 again. Or sometimes I say it seems like you are not ready to calm down yet, do you want me to come back in a few minutes. Or sometimes when they are too hysterical and they really needs help calming down, I offer to blow on them instead of them blowing. Usually as you get closer to 5 they are calmer and ready to talk about their problem. I have noticed my child sometimes on her own just starts blowing or taking deep breathes to calm herself down. This I see as a big success.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Mar 13 2015, 1:14 pm
Wow that is really difficult.
You asked what other parents would do. I would run everything by my doctor and ask for an evaluation. Maybe there are professionals out there who could help.
You sound like a really patient and good mother.
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