Am I Handling This The Right Way?

amother

Burlywood

Thu, Mar 26 2015, 2:33 pm

This is such a long story but I want advice so I will keep it brief so you guys will read it and respond. My teenage son is taking a class after school twice a week. A girl his age started the class a few months ago. She has medical special needs, and she is socially awkward, but she is smart and aware of her surroundings. She is bullying my son with mean and violent words, and when he tells her that she is rude, she laughs. She is smart and knows what she is doing, but she continues to get a free pass from the director of the program and from her mother because they feel she is emotionally fragile because of her condition. I usually teach my son to respond to bullies by saying things like "that's mean!" or "that's rude!" but I am worried that in this case, he is not being strong about it because he doesn't want to hurt her feelings, and she is taking advantage of his kindness. I am worried that it is causing him emotional damage to be in a situation where he is bullied and has to just "be the bigger man" and laugh it off. I don't know what would be the right thing to do at this point. Yesterday, the director spoke to her and she emailed me to forward my son a very unapologetic apology. It said that she never meant to hurt his feelings, that she thought he was strong enough to take a little teasing, and that she will work on herself to not tease people so much. This made me even more concerned, it seems like she is bullying him even in the apology! I don't know what to do at this point, what do you suggest? I really don't want to take him out of the class, so other suggestions would be appreciated.

sitting

Thu, Mar 26 2015, 2:44 pm

When theres bullying the bully ALWAYS has issues.....and ive taught my kids that...yes to feel sorry for the bully bc they r bullying as a last resort (often) to compensate for somethinf else. If he sees it in this way he will be less likely to be hurt by her words.
Without meaning to state the obvious..he can also choose to move away from her ie not sit near her nor pair up with her for work. If she does follow him to be hurtful he does need to say "I like u and think ur start but when u say such things I dont wanna be near u". She shld get that message loud and clear. This way he wont be outwardly hurting her feelings saying "ur being unkind" buy beginninf with a compliment to soften. Hope that helps. And no he shldnt pull out...running away from something like that isnt good.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Mar 26 2015, 3:55 pm

Not everybody is suitable company for your children, at any age.

This one isn't.

He needs to study this material some other way.

You, and his wife too, as women, and his daughters too, will pay and pay for these injuries, which cannot be talked away. They aren't even harmless in a full grown man with a beard.

Injuries are not allowed.

"Don't hit a girl" and "don't let people injure you" are both indelible concepts. Neither is negotiable. When they conflict head-on, as they do here, the only thing to do is avoid the woman entirely.

I think this situation is intolerable and you need to end it immediately.

Don't blame the other adults too much; they don't know what to do with mental illness and sometimes there is nothing to do. But that does not have to become your problem. Or your son's.

Quietly and nicely, no conflict, get him out of there. Make some excuse.

You will be showing him that his pain matters to you. This will get you lots of points when it's you who can't get up for a glass of water, later. He will be there. He will care.

mummiedearest

Thu, Mar 26 2015, 5:23 pm

I got my bullies to stop bullying me by insulting them back. lots of bullies are not to be reasoned with.

I don't think he should quit the class, that would be sending the wrong message. one doesn't avoid a situation just because it is hard. he needs to learn to arch one eyebrow, peer down his nose, and respond with, "and your point is?" in a sneering voice. broken record. if necessary, he can walk away after saying this. alternatively, he can roll his eyes and mutter, "yak, yak, yak." then walk away. being rude can work very well.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Mar 26 2015, 6:23 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

Yes. But you and the your bullies were all the same gender.

He cannot treat a girl that way. He cannot make an opponent out of a girl.

So he will be injured.

Or, if he in fact CAN, that is just as bad. That is bad training for him. It will ALSO negatively impact his self love. A man knows he really shouldn't do that.

So it is no-win, forked stick, so that is why I advised leaving, and fast.

There is a time to leave. You can't solve every problem.

mummiedearest

Thu, Mar 26 2015, 6:33 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

yes, he can treat a girl that way. he can make an opponent out of a girl. who said all my bullies were girls?

Dolly Welsh

Fri, Mar 27 2015, 1:49 am

Oh. He should deck a girl. A mentally challenged girl.

Hellllooo?

Boys don't do bitchy. And bitchy won't stop this one, anyway, she has social difficulties and won't get it. In fact, it's actually cruel to HER for him to square off against her as an opponent.

And no, he shouldn't ever lose his shrinking from regarding a woman as a legit opponent. Somebody on this forum is raising his future wife and wouldn't like that.

One should never hang around crazy people, or force one's children to.

The material can be learned elsewhere.

Learning has to be layered on top of a sound psychological base. Getting nuts to acquire learning is building on sand.

I hope this poor girl gets better but in the meantime she can't be allowed near OP's son.

At any age. If they meet in their twenties and she's the same, same deal. No contact.

Not all problems can be solved. This can't. There is a time to NOT stand your ground.

amother

Burlywood

Fri, Mar 27 2015, 2:38 am

OP here. I really appreciate reading all your replies. Dolly, I totally agree with you, a special needs girl is not a legit opponent. Normally he does know how to stand up for himself, but in this case he feels it isn't fair for him to put her in her place. And he is right, and I am so proud of him for it.

I do not want to have him drop the class. That would not be fair to him. I am trying to figure out another solution.

I emailed the director today, who forwarded my email to the mother, and I am waiting for her response. I will keep you all posted.

mummiedearest

Fri, Mar 27 2015, 9:30 am

Dolly Welsh wrote:

dolly, no one's hitting anyone here. and I'd like to point something out: op did not mention what kind of special needs this individual has. having dealt with people with varying special needs, I can say that in some cases, one absolutely should hold people accountable for their own actions. walking on egg shells around people may be pc, but it's not always helpful for anyone involved. just food for thought. if sarcasm is considered too rude, I understand. I would not eliminate being very honest as an option. "that remark you made was hurtful and inappropriate" is perfectly acceptable. it can even be said in a harsh voice if necessary. this is about setting healthy boundaries, not about being sympathetic. sugar-coating this kind of thing often backfires. and this scenario will not ruin the boy for marriage. really.

Dolly Welsh

Fri, Mar 27 2015, 12:43 pm

That was a girl, Greenfire. A boy is hampered and his hands are tied, in a way a girl's hands are not tied. He can't defend himself here without becoming a barbarian. Snappy remarks like "I am here to learn not listen to the likes of you, pudding face" won't do for a male, especially a developing one.

Ladies, the stakes are higher for males and the world is very different for males and the consequences of defeat are worse for them. They don't "go into their shell". They do much worse things than that. Why? Because they are male. It's a different Sefer.

OP I guess it's a very valuable class, and that's what you mean by "it would not be fair to him". Meaning, to be denied this class. But this taunting-a-chained-dog abuse must stop, stop, stop. Exactly how it is made to stop doesn't matter, but it must stop. I would not subject a grown man to it. Ever.

No hitting? What do you think a male does to someone who assaults him? Criticize his fashion choices? This is a male. Ordinarily, if it were a legit opponent, another boy, of course he would hit him. And the boy would get the point, and change his behavior. No girl can be handled that way, let alone a mentally challenged one.

There is nothing this boy can do here. He has to sit and take it.

At his age that isn't good for him.

At any age, we all know how words cut and kill. Any age. Any gender. This must not go on.

I agree, Mummie Dearest, that the little girl may be being indulged.

As you say there is no way to tell, but somehow she is not capable of having normal responses.

Yes, she should be taught better. But OP can't possibly do that.

You don't drink cyanide just because it's your grandma serving it. Vague analogy. The situation does not change the problem. Some things are unacceptable.

mummiedearest

Fri, Mar 27 2015, 12:57 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

That was a girl, Greenfire. A boy is hampered and his hands are tied, in a way a girl's hands are not tied. He can't defend himself here without becoming a barbarian.

OP I have the impression it's a very valuable class, and that's what you mean by "it would not be fair to him". Meaning, to be denied this class. But this taunting-a-chained-dog abuse must stop, stop, stop. Exactly how it is made to stop doesn't matter, but it must stop. I would not subject a grown man to it. Ever.

No hitting? What do you think a male does to someone who assaults him? Criticize his fashion choices? This is a male.
Ordinarily, if it were a legit opponent, another boy, he would hit him. And the boy would get the point, and change his behavior. No girl cannot be handled that way, let alone a mentally challenged one.

There is nothing this boy can do here. He has to sit and take it. At his age that isn't good for him. At any age we all know how words cut and kill. Any age. Any gender. This must not go on.

I agree, Mummie Dearest, that the little girl may be being indulged; as you say there is no way to tell, but somehow she is not capable of having normal responses. Yes, she should be taught better. But OP can't possibly do that.

no, dolly, boys do not automatically hit. they work with words just as well as girls. their points of reference may be different, but they're perfectly capable of speaking their minds. boys are not hampered, nor are their hands tied. there is no taunting a chained dog in the sense that you are speaking of. the chain is social propriety towards special needs persons, not social propriety towards girls.

if the girl (not sure she's little) is being indulged, dolly, it is not just by the adults around her. the children she interacts with indulge her as well, by not putting her in her place the way they would anyone else. again, I speak from experience. when you deal with someone who is indulged in this way, there are times when it falls to you to educate the person. there are times when I have had to tell a special needs individual, "it is inappropriate of you to behave in xyz manner. do not do it again." and beyond the initial embarrassment over a social faux pas, this individual thanked me and never repeated the action. this was a situation in which I needed to set up certain boundaries and my standard polite hints were doing nothing. if someone is oblivious to another's gestures and polite requests, how is s/he to figure out what is acceptable? indulging such an individual is not necessarily being sensitive to his/her feelings, it is often a sign of discomfort with his/her differences.

again, I don't know this particular child's circumstances. but I do know that you're doing boys a disfavor by assuming they can't use their verbal skills to solve problems.