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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Pesach

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imaima

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 2:42 pm

sky wrote:

I also spray to help my sanity. I clean as well as I possibly can then take a spray bottle filled with ammonia and water and cover every crevice and opening. This way I know anything I've missed becomes inedible.

I also get nervous. I spent a long time on my oven. And I keep finding new cracks and areas that crumbs get into and are hard to clean fully. and then when I finish an area I see tiny dots there (probably dust, but how to know?) and it drives me nuts, I remind myself that it was sprayed.

I agree the kitchen isn't like the living room or a bedroom. We don't put food in the clothing drawers, or eat off the couch. So it isn't as big of a deal.

Good for you to say that. I have a couch in the dining area. So we do eat on the couch.

Today the cleaner spent half an hour doing the couch. I had explained what to do and left to do the other room.
When she left, I put my hand between the cushions and there was tons of stuff inside. A cemetery of lollypop sticks, noodles and pita chips. Basically, she has spent the time wiping up the leather without actually going into cracks!!
Director

Needless to say how mad I was. Besides I dug out half a puzzle and a collection of my daughter's hair clips. Argh.

Barbara

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 2:50 pm

kb wrote:

I think I remember kol chamira including what we saw as well.

Probably not a recommended method for sinks, but my husband poured draino in the sink (down the drain) and let it sit, and that really made scrubbing the inside easy!!

You scrub the insides of your pipes?

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 2:55 pm

Barbara wrote:

You scrub the insides of your pipes?

No. I meant the inside of the sink, near the drain. Because the draino was poured there, any buildup cleaned up easily.

zaq

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 3:01 pm

Don't ask rabbi imamother. Ask your own rabbi and then accept what he says without second-guessing. If he steers you wrong, the penalty is his, not yours. If you find yourself unable to accept the rabbi's word, then chances are you are the teeniest bit obsessive-compulsive, in which case what you need is not a rabbi or a miracle housecleaner but a therapist.

Ruchel

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 3:10 pm

It's a yetzer hara, like wanting to eat treif or wtv, so you "hate" Pessach and don't follow the hagada.

maapse

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 7:31 pm

People who are cleaning their ovens, can you tell me. Are you using your oven for pesach? As far as I know the only oven that can be kashered for pesach is a self cleaning oven (pyrolytic oven). Most people I know dont have a self cleaning oven so they cant use their oven for pesach so therefore it gets sold and doesnt need to be cleaned.

Also, what corners and cracks and crevices are you cleaning out? If there is chometz in a crack or a crevice then it automatically falls into the catagory of garbage and therefore is not chometz.

Are you sure you are pesach cleaning according to the halochos of pesach or are you doing a lot of unnecessary work?

FranticFrummie

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 7:46 pm

imaima wrote:

Needless to say how mad I was. Besides I dug out half a puzzle and a collection of my daughter's hair clips. Argh.

I solved this problem easily. I sprinkled a few dimes and nickels under the couch cushions, and told DD and a friend of hers that any money they find while cleaning, they could keep. There was just enough money in there to keep them motivated, and they were very competitive!

Once all the toys, wrappers, hair clips, and candies were dumped in the garbage, I could get in there with the hose of my vacuum cleaner and get the rest of the crumbs out.

TeachersNotebook

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 7:58 pm

Maapse, I just spoke to my rabbi about cleaning my oven. It is not self clean, but he said if I cleaned it thoroughly (read: EasyOff) and set it to the highest temp for the length of time my longest-cooking dish has ever been in the oven, then I could use it for Pesach. He also said that if I would be home for Pesach but not using the oven, I just have to clean it and tape it shut, no heating it. So apparently this is definitely rabbi-dependent.

finallyamommy

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 8:17 pm

I agree with everything said here, and Frantic Frummie if you are going to be in EY next year I want to borrow your dogs! :-) Really, don't worry -- if it's stuck behind your oven and/or doused with cleaner, it ain't worth worrying about.

sky

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 8:32 pm

maapse wrote:

According to my understanding crumbs in cracks and crevices must be cleaned or be made inedible especially in areas where food is being handled.

I am using my oven for Pesach. Maybe I"m working so hard because I don't keep it so clean the whole year.

- I have an older oven that does not fully self clean the inside of the door. The glass and door itself was covered in grease stains.
- the edges of the door that come in contact with the oven must be cleaned because the self cleaning does not touch them.
- My door in general has lots of difficult hard to reach areas.
- Under my oven I have lots of real chometz such as whole pieces of cheerios. According to halacha I don't HAVE to move my oven, but I feel much better because my drawer comes out and I see everything, and I once I do move the oven I have to scrub what is underneath.
- My oven drawer is full of crumbs and must be washed down (has some nice crevices as well).
- I pulled out the oven and along the sides of the oven there are lots of large cracks with large pieces of chametz, not just crumbs, especially where the cook top meets the oven.
- Inside the vent of the oven (over the stove) - it catches grease there.
- Underside of the door opening is filthy.
- And of course scrubbing the oven top and grates as well as the vent over the oven.

Maybe newer ovens are easier?

Last edited by sky on Mon, Mar 30 2015, 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

bookie

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 8:47 pm

TeachersNotebook wrote:

This, I was told to easy off my oven twice and then to burn it on 450 for about four to five hours.

justforfun87

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 9:58 pm

so just for clarification, if any crumbs are sprayed even if it can potentially come in contact with food it is ok? I sent an email to the Rabbi but honestly he is a Rav of a big shul. I can't really just call him for every little question, it is not easy to get in touch with him. Do your rabbis answer all these questions all the time? Maybe I will start a new thread.

granolamom

Mon, Mar 30 2015, 10:03 pm

justforfun87 wrote:

I read that in Aish.com as well and that is all fine and dandy for the living room. Back to my original point, it does say though that a crumb found on a table is a problem. So crumbs that are in crevices in kitchen/oven and can find themselves onto your plate is a problem, no?

if you sweep your floor and wash it with some sort of detergent then #1 any crumbs left are tiny and #2 rendered inedible by the detergent.
and really what is the mechanism by which miniscule crumbs on the floor find their way onto your plate? we have a minhag/stringency/I dont know which it is really not to use any utensil that fell on the floor. I guess for that reason.

how is a tiny crumb in the crevice of your oven, which has been rendered inedible by the cleaning process and burned to carbon in the kashering process going to get into your food?

I think you can relax a bit. I cover things like underneath my oven hood and the backsplash behind my sink, the countertops, tabletop, etc but other than those places, I dont see how miniscule crumbs are getting into the food.

imasoftov

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 1:08 am

maapse wrote:

As far as I know the only oven that can be kashered for pesach is a self cleaning oven (pyrolytic oven).

Please follow your own rabbi's instructions and I'll follow mine.

Iymnok

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 2:27 am

maapse wrote:

That's according to Rav Moshe Feinstein who is the most machmir for ovens. He holds you need libbun gamur, not not libun kal and bittul.

Barbara

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 4:43 am

maapse wrote:

While you should certainly follow your own rabbi, the notion that an oven cannot be kashered for Pesach is not a mainstream notion. From CRC, for example

Quote:

In a conventional oven, whether gas or electric, an oven cleaner may be necessary to remove baked-on grease. Be sure to check hidden areas, including corners, door edges, the area behind the flame burners, and the grooves of the rack shelves. If a caustic type of oven cleaner (such as Easy-Off) was used to clean the oven, and some stubborn spots remained after a second application with similar results, the remaining spots may be disregarded. Once the oven and racks have been cleaned, they may be kashered by libbun kal. The requirement of libbun kal is satisfied by turning the oven to broil or the highest setting for forty minutes. In a gas oven, the broil setting will allow the flame to burn continuously. In a conventional electric oven, the highest setting (550°F) kashers the oven. Only libbun kal is required for the oven racks since it is usual to cook food in a pan and not directly on the racks themselves.

Chabad

Quote:

Stove
Thoroughly clean and scour every part of the stove. Heat the oven to the highest temperature possible for 1–2 hours. Heat the grates and the iron parts of the stove (and the elements, if electric) until they are red-hot. It is suggested that the oven and the stove top should be covered with aluminum foil afterwards for the duration of Pa]ssover.

Quote:

NON SELF-CLEANING OVEN
Libun (burning)
Clean all surfaces (walls, floor, doors and racks) thoroughly with a caustic cleanser (e.g. Easy Off). Pay special attention to thermostat, oven window, and edges of the oven chamber. Black discoloration that is flush with the metal need not be removed. Oven should not be used for 24 hours. Place racks in the oven and turn the oven to broil (highest heat) for 60 minutes. A broiler pan that comes in direct contact with food should not be used.
Note: The method of kashering described above is based on the ruling of Rav Aharon Kotler zt’l. However, Rav Moshe Feinstein zt’l ruled that the oven must either be kashered with a blow torch, or an insert should be placed in the oven. Consult your rabbi for guidance.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 4:58 am

Thanks for taking the time to compile all that info, Barbara!

Please keep in mind that if you are kashering a non self-cleaning oven, there is a very real risk that you can destroy the element and/or the thermostat on your oven. I hear about it happening to people every single year. Then you have to either rush out and buy a replacement oven, or try to make do without until you can get it repaired or replaced. NOT FUN.

Another thing to remember is the potential for a fire (CV"S), so make sure you supervise every step of the process, and don't just go do something else while the oven is heating to such a high temperature. Keep a fire extinguisher handy, and know where your oven's breaker switch is.

chani8

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 6:28 am

If you don't see the crumbs, they're not there.

If you spray them with windex, they're bittul.

imasinger

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 6:53 am

The Rebbetzin on Pesach: https://youtu.be/i0aL8A1UorQ

grace413

Tue, Mar 31 2015, 7:05 am

imasinger wrote:

The Rebbetzin on Pesach: https://youtu.be/i0aL8A1UorQ

Thanks for the laugh!

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