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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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amother
Papaya
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 Thu, Apr 16 2015, 8:03 am
My DH who is currently in kollel and teaching wants to plan a career now.
He is good at math and analyzing. He has a LOT of personality though and I wonder if he would be too bored in a cubicle setting.
What kind of schooling is required? Are there all men programs?
After how many years/exams can you begin working?
How much does an actuary make starting off and potential salaries?
Is it a job that you work with people or more by yourself? (I think he needs some social)?
Is it a 9-5 kind of job or longer hours?
Please give any details you know on the topic, TIA!
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mommy3b2c
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 8:31 am
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He will need his bachelors, and then 10 very hard tests which he will need to study for on his own. If he speeds through his bachelors in 2 years, he can probably also do the tests in 2 years. There are no 9-5 jobs unless you work as a secretary. It is not a very social job, although he can socialize with his colleagues. Touro is an all boys program.
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amother
Papaya
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 8:42 am
A BA in education can help for an actuary?
He doesn't know the first thing about business or anything.
Is there a program which prepares you for the tests?
He is not a very disciplined person in terms of self study.
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Mevater
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 8:58 am
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Does he excel at and enjoy math and statistics? I heard actuarial studies is way harder than going for a CPA, and requires many more hours of study and more test taking.
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amother
Sienna
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 9:15 am
If he is not disciplined in self study this is not for him. My dh is in this feild. These tests are VERY hard. They require months and months of consistent study and self sacrifice. Only a small percentage pass each exam and go on to the next exam. The first test alone requires calculus one and two and then some. He need not pass all the exams to be certified as there are two levels of certification ASA the lower and FSA the higher. I believe the first level is seven tests. Many feilds require addition sub specialty certification as well as at least the basic lower ASA level.
He can begin working before he passed all the exams. He needs a BA probably in math (bc the tests begin with an assumption of linear equations, calculus etc as basic knowledge)and a test or two. Most ppl begin their careers in insurance companies where you are paid to work a few hours and study significant hours of time. Those who don't consistently pass exams are let go. Those who get through the exams stay. A lot of pressure to pass exams that you are essentially paid to study for. Insurance company jobs are more 9-5 or 8-4. However, while these salaries are decent, they are nowhere near the take home pay of those who go into consulting. Starting in insurance companies is 50-60k and in consulting firms around 70k. The top guys in insurance companies earn around 180-200k. These are the TOP guys and few of them.
In consulting you are paid to work - and it is definitely long hours. Very not 9-5. You are also given maybe a day or two to study per exam. You are expected to work and study on your own time. But consulting salaries are far higher and have far more potential for branching into other feilds. As a consultant, you do need social skills as you interact with clients once you hit a certain level.
It is not easy to switch from an insurance company to a consulting company. It has been done - but it is difficult.
Try getting a summer internship. Those are easier to get than jobs and often lead to a job. You need to apply on Sep or Oct for the following summer. Dates are not flexible but what the company determines.
As my dh tells ppl - try the first exam. If you can't pass it you stop.
Only anon bc too many ppl know me.
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Mrs Bissli
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 9:15 am
Good answers for above posters. Most actuaries I know have BA in Actuarial Science, Statistics, Math, very rarely Physics. So basically more natural science than social science (Economy, Business, Accounting). Accounting and actuarial science are quite different from each other.
Yes, it is harder than CPA, mainly because there are more exams to pass, need to study for longer period of years, and they're very in-depth area. I think many candidates form study-groups (usually on weekends or in the evenings, so you need to get accustomed to DH being away.)
Actuaries these days work in a team, very often project oriented (eg developing new products for insurance company or pension funds). Obviously your DH would likely work with female colleagues/bosses/subordinates. They're definitely NOT 9-5 jobs maybe unless there're public sector positions, but it is more reasonable than other corporate professional jobs (eg unlikely to be called to work on Sundays).
Don't know about US, but here, newly minted actuaries get probably around £45-55k (so better than fresh college graduates and comparable to lucrative areas like investment banking but not that high if you consider years to qualify). Though senior level actuaries with managerial responsibilities in private sector can get £100k and above.
BUT THE ANSWER TO OP'S QUESTION IS: DOES HE WANT TO BE AN ACTUARY? He really needs to be motivated because the process is a long and arduous one (that's why there're fewer supply and good salary).
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amother
Sienna
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 9:22 am
| mommy2b2c wrote: | | He will need his bachelors, and then 10 very hard tests which he will need to study for on his own. If he speeds through his bachelors in 2 years, he can probably also do the tests in 2 years. There are no 9-5 jobs unless you work as a secretary. It is not a very social job, although he can socialize with his colleagues. Touro is an all boys program. |
It is almost impossible to do the exams in two years - esp if you are married and want to see your family a tiny amount. They are only given in Nov and May and you can't take three to four exams each time. It is impossible. Nor can you assume you passed every exam you take. These tests require too much work to pass With a relatively low percentage of ppl passing an exam. In addition, the exams are progressively harder and more time consuming. If someone struggles to pass exam one do NOT continue in this career track.
I am the amother above whose dh is in this field.
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amother
Taupe
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 9:36 am
| amother wrote: |
As my dh tells ppl - try the first exam. If you can't pass it you stop.
Only anon bc too many ppl know me. |
Not the best advice. My brother (who was valedictorian) failed the first test twice, took the second test and passed, took the first test again and passed, and then passed all the rest on the first try.
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mommy3b2c
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 9:39 am
| amother wrote: | It is almost impossible to do the exams in two years - esp if you are married and want to see your family a tiny amount. They are only given in Nov and May and you can't take three to four exams each time. It is impossible. Nor can you assume you passed every exam you take. These tests require too much work to pass With a relatively low percentage of ppl passing an exam. In addition, the exams are progressively harder and more time consuming. If someone struggles to pass exam one do NOT continue in this career track.
I am the amother above whose dh is in this field. |
I believe my brother did it in two years. Maybe I am remembering wrong.
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amother
Ruby
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 9:42 am
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Taupe amother from above-I didn't know anyone passed tests 2-10 on the first try each time. Given the low pass rates, that seems statistically very difficult (ha ha). How much time did he give himself to study for each test?.
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amother
Taupe
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 9:46 am
| amother wrote: | | Taupe amother from above-I didn't know anyone passed tests 2-10 on the first try each time. Given the low pass rates, that seems statistically very difficult (ha ha). How much time did he give himself to study for each test?. |
He studied very hard and very often. He is brilliant and very self disciplined.
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Chayalle
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 10:06 am
My father is a retired actuary. He has a masters in Engineering from Columbia. After that he went into computer programming, and did his actuarial exams while already working....ended up in the actuarial department of the company he worked for, calculating valuations/reserves. He was always known as a math genius, and has an interesting business on the side with implementing some math formula aspects of Jewish life with computer programming (but not posting those details here as he's pretty well known for this in some circles).....
I sort of work on the flip side of what he used to do - I'm a computer programmer, and I work with the actuarial department of an insurance company. I implement the wacky ideas they come up with, in the computer systems - I work with product development and implementation.
I have a friend whose sister is an actuary. I haven't been in touch for a while, but I remember she called me a few years ago as she was looking for an internship and wanted me to put in a good word for her with the actuarial team. It's hard to find a job. I know she didn't get the position with the company I worked for, but I believe she is currently employed.
Wishing you Hatzlacha.
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Chayalle
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 10:08 am
| Mrs Bissli wrote: | Good answers for above posters. Most actuaries I know have BA in Actuarial Science, Statistics, Math, very rarely Physics. So basically more natural science than social science (Economy, Business, Accounting). Accounting and actuarial science are quite different from each other.
Yes, it is harder than CPA, mainly because there are more exams to pass, need to study for longer period of years, and they're very in-depth area. I think many candidates form study-groups (usually on weekends or in the evenings, so you need to get accustomed to DH being away.)
Actuaries these days work in a team, very often project oriented (eg developing new products for insurance company or pension funds). Obviously your DH would likely work with female colleagues/bosses/subordinates. They're definitely NOT 9-5 jobs maybe unless there're public sector positions, but it is more reasonable than other corporate professional jobs (eg unlikely to be called to work on Sundays).
Don't know about US, but here, newly minted actuaries get probably around £45-55k (so better than fresh college graduates and comparable to lucrative areas like investment banking but not that high if you consider years to qualify). Though senior level actuaries with managerial responsibilities in private sector can get £100k and above.
BUT THE ANSWER TO OP'S QUESTION IS: DOES HE WANT TO BE AN ACTUARY? He really needs to be motivated because the process is a long and arduous one (that's why there're fewer supply and good salary). |
Well said. This sums it up.
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oohlala
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 1:46 pm
My husband is an actuary. I showed him this post and this is what he has to add:
I would add a few points:
In theory it doesn't matter what your BA is in, but it's typical for it to be in math, statistics, or something related. If you know calculus and statistics and you're passing exams, it doesn't really matter, but it will be hard to pass exams if your BA is in education or something totally unrelated and you don't have a solid math background. A BA in math is probably the best bet to start with.
The exams are a very long and arduous process and if he's not very disciplined in terms of self-study, it's probably not for him. In addition to him being committed, dw must also be committed and supportive of him being out of the house/getting his study time/just generally not being available during study season. You have to know yourselves if you're willing to put in this commitment for a long period of time. Some companies (mostly life insurance companies in NYC) might let you go if you're not passing exams, but others (more P&C) will let you keep your job, but you really won't advance much if you're not passing.
There's no such thing as passing all the tests in 2 years. Right now on the CAS side (Property/Casualty insurance) there are 11 exams (even though they only go up to Exam 9, Exam 3 essentially is 3 separate exams, so it's really 11 total), plus several other online courses and mini-courses called VEEs. If you are awesome at exams and never fail, the fastest it could possibly go would be 6 years (passing 2 exams per year), with 10 years being a more realistic expectation for someone with familial responsibilities, and that's if you're good at exams. It is a VERY long haul. I would agree with the poster who said that just because you fail Exam 1 on your first try doesn't mean you should necessarily quit. The exam process requires you to not only know the material, but to know the exam process, and to be a good test-taker, and you might become more adept at those aspects with time, even if you fail the first time.
All that said, it's a great career if you can pass your exams and get to the other end. There definitely are 9-5 jobs out there, which can be great for your work/life balance, (my impression is that this is especially true the further away you go from New York.) However, be aware that in P&C insurance, there are generally two areas that actuaries can work in - pricing and reserving. The 9-5 jobs can be found in Pricing. Rexerving actuaries typically work very long hours, weekends, lots of pressure etc. so that's a much ahrder lifestyle.
Here's a link to the salary survey
http://www.dwsimpson.com/salary.html
I think the numbers in the salary survey are somewhat inflated but it gives you a general idea of what the salaries are like
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causemommysaid
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Thu, Apr 16 2015, 2:25 pm
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If he already has a degree in education, why doesn't he try to get a masters in education specializing in teaching math. He could be a high school/grade school math teacher. It would give him social interaction as well.
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amother
Tangerine
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Tue, Nov 03 2020, 1:18 pm
Bumping this up. Is anyone's DH a P&C actuary and would be willing to post salary (and how many exams and years of experience)?
Thanks!
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oohlala
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Tue, Nov 03 2020, 1:32 pm
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My husband is a property and casualty actuary with 7.5 years experience and he completed all his tests. He makes about 120,000 per year, not including the bonus. Happy to answer any other questions you have.
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cnc
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Tue, Nov 03 2020, 1:48 pm
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10 years is more realistic . My uncle is an actuary. It’s not a job for someone that needs or likes to socialize.
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cnc
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Tue, Nov 03 2020, 1:49 pm
| mommy3b2c wrote: | | I believe my brother did it in two years. Maybe I am remembering wrong. |
Is he a CPA? 2 years (18 months or so) is realistic for a CPA.
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