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Is your child safe?
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amother
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Post Sun, Apr 19 2015, 8:59 pm
octopus wrote:
I am all about watching my kids, but this is too extreme.


I live in Brooklyn and no my seven and half and almost six yr old are not allowed outside without me including my front steps. No way. There are way too many stories here
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 19 2015, 9:02 pm
zaq wrote:
There are no "safe" neighborhoods. There are only neighborhoods with higher or lower crime rates. No such thing as a zero-crime area, not even the White House or Buckingham Place, where an intruder once broke into the Queen's bedroom in the middle of the night. (The Queen, ever the picture of grace under fire, calmly chatted with the intruder even as she pressed her security-alarm button to summon aid.The intruder was ultimately removed and Her Majesty was unharmed.)

But living in a low-crime area is little consolation if you or one of your loved ones happen to be the victim of one of those rare crimes. For you, it has just become a high-crime area.


This is exactly the way I feel. I am not about to take even the smallest chance with my precious children. I don't care if all the eight year olds on my block go around the corner themselves or all the six year olds play outside. My kids don't.
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amother
Silver


 

Post Sun, Apr 19 2015, 9:39 pm
I opened this thread with great interest, and I am so hppy to find a like minded group of women on here. I live in OOT USA and unfortunately in my own neighborhood a lot of people seem to be very lax about child safety in general. I have a hard time finding people to carpool with as most of my neighbors are happy to double buckle their kids and put little kids in the front pasenger seat, and I am unwilling to send my kids anywhere in their cars.
Furthermore, I constantly see kids as young as 5 or 6 and as old as 16 riding bicycles without helmets, even down the middle of the roads. I cnt stand what I am seeing and my kids get so embarrassed when I tell their friends to go get a helmet on. They always say that their parents dont care.

This shabbos topped all.... I walked out of shul to see a 6 yr old boy pushing his 3 month old baby in a stroller, out of shul, down the steps and down the street. I was flabbergasted,. I tried to stop the 6 yr old boy. I then noticed that the baby wasnt even strapped in, I insisted that he stopped while I strapped th baby in, all teh time the boy was insisting 'I can do it myself, etc'. Finally I saw the boys' parents leisurely walking about 400ft behind us, relaxed and hppy. Why??? What is with them? I wanted to say someting to them but my husband told me thta there was no point in saying anyhing. Do htese people not value their kids or something?
anon to protect these neighbors of mine...
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 19 2015, 9:56 pm
It's not that they don't value their kids; it's that they are living in la-la land. They are either ignorant of the dangers because no one ever told them and/or they don't read the papers or listen to the news; or they believe that Hashgacha Pratit means that because G-d watches, they don't have to. Rambam disagrees.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 19 2015, 10:48 pm
Fact: your children's lives are much much much more at risk each time you take them in a car than each time you let them play outside.

This ridiculous paranoia about stranger kidnappings is completely over the top. And in many cases, it cripples children's skills in independence.

My 9 year old and 11 year old ride their bikes around our neighborhood all afternoon long and play with their friends and buy candy from the corner store. I do have neighbors who don't let their children that age play in the front yard by themselves and I feel bad for them.
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m in Israel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 3:50 am
mommy2b2c wrote:
First of all, my porch is high, and I am scared they will fall off. Second of all, extreme in what way? What negative effects can this extremeness lead to exactly?


First of all, if your porch is high enough that falling off is a danger you likely have a chiyuv d'oraisah to put up a proper fence so no one can fall. (It is also a much more practical solution than not letting anyone on the porch)

http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/.....h.htm

Secondly, as far as negative effects go, other posters have already given you quite a few. You are preventing them from learning independence and self-confidence, and teaching them to be afraid of the world. If an 8 year old is not even allowed to go on her own front porch, at what point will she begin to learn to navigate the world? Will you ever teach her to cross a street on her own? To go visit a friend?

Every child is different, but as a child gets older our job as parents is to teach them how to separate from us and begin to function as individuals. It starts with the porch, and then the yard, and then maybe to go down the block -- but eventually you are going to have to let go of your child. By not starting this at an age appropriate time, you may very well be making it much harder for them down the line.
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rowo




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 4:53 am
All that this highlights to me is the need to educate our kids how to behave, how to react and what's appropriate and what's not.
Rather than now restricting the kids from playing outside, wouldn't it be wise to teach them what to do in such situations?

My kids would never accept candy from a total stranger on the street, they would probably run away crying.
My children (ages 3 - almost 8) often play in my parents front yard, which is fenced in with a fence taller than them and which is right in front of large windows to the living room - so we can see and hear. They know they are not allowed to go out of the gate, (no matter how annoying it is for us to keep getting the balls that go over..) and as soon as someone comes in the gate they will come and tell us.
Teach them and trust them, it is so empowering for them. (Obviously within things appropriate for their age and location)
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 7:24 am
marina wrote:
Fact: your children's lives are much much much more at risk each time you take them in a car than each time you let them play outside.

This ridiculous paranoia about stranger kidnappings is completely over the top. And in many cases, it cripples children's skills in independence.

My 9 year old and 11 year old ride their bikes around our neighborhood all afternoon long and play with their friends and buy candy from the corner store. I do have neighbors who don't let their children that age play in the front yard by themselves and I feel bad for them.


At what age did you first let them do this?
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 7:28 am
I am often troubled that I had more freedom as the only child of a Shoah survivor, than some kids nowadays certainly in America but starting also in Europe. I did go around (though mostly with a friend), we did bike, we did rollers - most kids probably had more freedom than me though I saw being driven as a priviledge, but I DEFINITELY wasn't always under eye.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 7:38 am
Ruchel wrote:
I am often troubled that I had more freedom as the only child of a Shoah survivor, than some kids nowadays certainly in America but starting also in Europe. I did go around (though mostly with a friend), we did bike, we did rollers - most kids probably had more freedom than me though I saw being driven as a priviledge, but I DEFINITELY wasn't always under eye.


I am also more than a bit shocked by how circumscribed and limited childrens' freedom and independence are in some areas according to this thread - and I grew up in NYC in the seventies.
And I am a very protective mom (with a self-confessed tendency toward over protectiveness Sad ) myself.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 8:03 am
m in Israel wrote:
First of all, if your porch is high enough that falling off is a danger you likely have a chiyuv d'oraisah to put up a proper fence so no one can fall. (It is also a much more practical solution than not letting anyone on the porch)

http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/.....h.htm

Secondly, as far as negative effects go, other posters have already given you quite a few. You are preventing them from learning independence and self-confidence, and teaching them to be afraid of the world. If an 8 year old is not even allowed to go on her own front porch, at what point will she begin to learn to navigate the world? Will you ever teach her to cross a street on her own? To go visit a friend?

Every child is different, but as a child gets older our job as parents is to teach them how to separate from us and begin to function as individuals. It starts with the porch, and then the yard, and then maybe to go down the block -- but eventually you are going to have to let go of your child. By not starting this at an age appropriate time, you may very well be making it much harder for them down the line.


The gate on my porch is high enough. I'm scared anyway. Little boys know how to climb. Second of all, I am not crippling them in any way. My children are very independent in many ways. For example:
at 5 years old, they already know how to place an order in a pizza shop and pay.

They know how to go into a grocery, read a short list, find all the items, and checkout.
They are also extremely self confident. In fact, so much so, that I am terrified. Neither of them has a problem just walking away from me in the park or zoo or anywhere else. If I blink my eyes for one second, they are gone. That's why I can't let go of the m for a second.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 8:11 am
marina wrote:
Fact: your children's lives are much much much more at risk each time you take them in a car than each time you let them play outside.

This ridiculous paranoia about stranger kidnappings is completely over the top. And in many cases, it cripples children's skills in independence.

My 9 year old and 11 year old ride their bikes around our neighborhood all afternoon long and play with their friends and buy candy from the corner store. I do have neighbors who don't let their children that age play in the front yard by themselves and I feel bad for them.


Who says I'm not afraid of the car? I say a prayer every time we get in. My kids are also in car seats, until they no longer fit. Then I switch to a high back booster. I don't let my kids into a carpool unless I know for sure that they will have the appropriate booster, and be buckled the right way.

I am scared of everything.

You don't have to feel bad for them. I teach them independence in many ways. They are very lucky little boys and their lives are full of rich experiences. They visit museums and libraries and book stores. They go to zoos and the beach and water parks. They go swimming they are on sports teams and take art classes and martial arts lessons. They paint and do play dough and arts and crafts. Their mommy sits in the floor with them and does Lego and plays board games and we read all kinds if educational and fiction books. We go to the park so they can ride their bikes. I take them out on the block to play with their friends. Save your pity for someone else. They are doing just fine.
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rainbow dash




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 9:10 am
mommy2b2c wrote:
Who says I'm not afraid of the car? I say a prayer every time we get in. My kids are also in car seats, until they no longer fit. Then I switch to a high back booster. I don't let my kids into a carpool unless I know for sure that they will have the appropriate booster, and be buckled the right way.

I am scared of everything.

You don't have to feel bad for them. I teach them independence in many ways. They are very lucky little boys and their lives are full of rich experiences. They visit museums and libraries and book stores. They go to zoos and the beach and water parks. They go swimming they are on sports teams and take art classes and martial arts lessons. They paint and do play dough and arts and crafts. Their mommy sits in the floor with them and does Lego and plays board games and we read all kinds if educational and fiction books. We go to the park so they can ride their bikes. I take them out on the block to play with their friends. Save your pity for someone else. They are doing just fine.


Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 9:43 am
mommy2b2c wrote:

They are also extremely self confident. In fact, so much so, that I am terrified. Neither of them has a problem just walking away from me in the park or zoo or anywhere else. If I blink my eyes for one second, they are gone. That's why I can't let go of the m for a second.


That's not self confidence. That's a direct result of your helicopter parenting.

When kids are never allowed to take risks, they don't learn to judge danger or risk levels and make their own decisions.

For example, the kid whose mother is always half an inch behind them on the playground, is the one who will try jumping off the top of the slide. He is not thinking about the danger, he's expecting her to do the thinking for him, as she always does. The kid whose parent is a little further away, not hovering and telling him what he can or can't do, will have to think for himself. Does this look safe? Is this dangerous? That is how kids learn.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 9:49 am
oliveoil wrote:
That's not self confidence. That's a direct result of your helicopter parenting.

When kids are never allowed to take risks, they don't learn to judge danger or risk levels and make their own decisions.

For example, the kid whose mother is always half an inch behind them on the playground, is the one who will try jumping off the top of the slide. He is not thinking about the danger, he's expecting her to do the thinking for him, as she always does. The kid whose parent is a little further away, not hovering and telling him what he can or can't do, will have to think for himself. Does this look safe? Is this dangerous? That is how kids learn.


Fine. That's not self confidence. Whatever. I gave examples of which my kids are self confident and extremely independent. I guess you skipped over those. In any case, I am pretty confident that I am raising emotionally mature, independent children with a high self esteem. You don't know my children. You don't know how wild they are or the risks their willing to take. You think I'm not being a good parent. I think others are bordering on neglect. Agree to disagree. Also, look up the definition of a helicopter parent. I am not one.
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Tzutzie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 10:24 am
oliveoil wrote:
That's not self confidence. That's a direct result of your helicopter parenting.

When kids are never allowed to take risks, they don't learn to judge danger or risk levels and make their own decisions.

For example, the kid whose mother is always half an inch behind them on the playground, is the one who will try jumping off the top of the slide. He is not thinking about the danger, he's expecting her to do the thinking for him, as she always does. The kid whose parent is a little further away, not hovering and telling him what he can or can't do, will have to think for himself. Does this look safe? Is this dangerous? That is how kids learn.


I don't know mommy2b2c's kids but some kids are risk takers. For example. One of my siblings has 5 kids. Same house same parents. One used to the most dangerous things. Like standing on her toes on one foot at the edge of an 10 foot fence in a public playground. Or swinging on the neighbors porch fence -8 th floor. Ans she's a girl. Her son? He was a very calm gentlemen. Again. Same house. Same parenting style. And no she was faaar from a helicopter parent. She needed 17 pears of eyes for this kid.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 11:49 am
oliveoil wrote:
That's not self confidence. That's a direct result of your helicopter parenting.

When kids are never allowed to take risks, they don't learn to judge danger or risk levels and make their own decisions.

For example, the kid whose mother is always half an inch behind them on the playground, is the one who will try jumping off the top of the slide. He is not thinking about the danger, he's expecting her to do the thinking for him, as she always does. The kid whose parent is a little further away, not hovering and telling him what he can or can't do, will have to think for himself. Does this look safe? Is this dangerous? That is how kids learn.


THANK YOU!!! I am so glad that at least a few people like you and Marina get it. Thumbs Up

Another thing to keep in mind - kids who are over protected will grow up to seek partners who are controlling and possibly emotionally abusive. They will naturally be drawn to someone who will tell them what to wear, how much to spend, where they can and cannot go, and who they can be friends with. Men will look for a "mommy", and girls will look for a jailer.

Being an over controlling parent sets your children up for very unhealthy relationship patterns until they get enough therapy to learn how to trust themselves and have their inner child grow up. They will have to learn to "parent themselves", because you kept them babies until they turned 18.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 12:07 pm
gp2.0 wrote:
At what age did you first let them do this?


I allowed them to cross the little streets around 8, after they showed over and over that they look both ways. At the same time I let them ride their bikes across those little streets, provided they wear helmets and walk their bikes across the street.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 12:10 pm
oliveoil wrote:
That's not self confidence. That's a direct result of your helicopter parenting.

When kids are never allowed to take risks, they don't learn to judge danger or risk levels and make their own decisions.

For example, the kid whose mother is always half an inch behind them on the playground, is the one who will try jumping off the top of the slide. He is not thinking about the danger, he's expecting her to do the thinking for him, as she always does. The kid whose parent is a little further away, not hovering and telling him what he can or can't do, will have to think for himself. Does this look safe? Is this dangerous? That is how kids learn.


Exactly. When we are at amusement parks, my nine year old walks with me, and my 11 year old goes with a friend who has a cell phone but always in my vicinity. And they both know where to go if they are lost. They evaluate the rides carefully on their own and, more often than not, decline the wild ones.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 12:14 pm
mommy2b2c wrote:
Who says I'm not afraid of the car? I say a prayer every time we get in. My kids are also in car seats, until they no longer fit. Then I switch to a high back booster. I don't let my kids into a carpool unless I know for sure that they will have the appropriate booster, and be buckled the right way.

I am scared of everything.

You don't have to feel bad for them. I teach them independence in many ways. They are very lucky little boys and their lives are full of rich experiences. They visit museums and libraries and book stores. They go to zoos and the beach and water parks. They go swimming they are on sports teams and take art classes and martial arts lessons. They paint and do play dough and arts and crafts. Their mommy sits in the floor with them and does Lego and plays board games and we read all kinds if educational and fiction books. We go to the park so they can ride their bikes. I take them out on the block to play with their friends. Save your pity for someone else. They are doing just fine.


1. Saying a prayer in a car? If you are so terrified of stranger danger, you should be way more afraid of cars and you really should just walk everywhere.

2. Being scared of everything? That's why I feel bad for you. That's no way to live.

3. I'm sure you are a great mom in many ways. But parenting is hard enough, why make it harder by being petrified of everything.
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