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Please help with realistic budget



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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Sat, Apr 18 2015, 11:54 pm
I'm trying to research as well as I can, have read through all the materials on NBN website, and talked to a few friends in Israel. But it's so hard because there are so many variables! Trying to figure out how much life in Israel would cost to predict if it is at all feasible and what our target income needs to be. Here are the factors:

1. Family of 4 - 2 parents, 5 year old, 3 year old
2. One parent definitely needs to commute every day. Probably by public transportation, I doubt we could afford car ownership and maintenance in Israel. The other adult would also need bus passes and maybe occasional taxi fare for errands and such, but probably no commute (working from home)
3. One child entering school system (4-5 year old class), one child in gan. I think the type of school we're looking for is what would be categorized as Chardal.
4. 2-bedroom apartment would be fine, unless the rooms are tiny in which case 3 would be nice too. I know rents vary by neighborhood, but I really don't know exactly where we'd be looking yet. It depends on where jobs work out, which we're currently applying to. Not Jerusalem I think, possibly near Tel Aviv which could include living in Beit Shemesh and commuting to TA. But if you live in Jerusalem and the rest of the stuff sounds similar to your family, I'd be interested in your budget just in case. We're open to living on a yishuv or moshav but due to job factors, finding the right school for our kids, and uncertainty about car ownership, our options may be limited.
5. We live simply by American standards but not by Israeli standards. Saying this because I know a real genuine Israeli simple family and even if I tried I don't think I could live like them, I don't even know how! We are the type that will eat meat/chicken once or twice a week besides Shabbos but never spend anything on prepared foods (for both health and budget reasons) so go figure where on the spectrum that lands us.

Does anyone have a similar family constitution and can tell me approximately how much you need to make it? Per month or year? I know I left out a lot of budget items in the list above, I'm not actually creating a line-by-line budget right now, just trying to describe our family make-up and lifestyle to ask approximately how much money we'd need in total.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 1:44 am
Bump. good morning, Israel Smile
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 2:41 am
We match some of what you mention- Jerusalem, 1 parent commuting, 1 working from home. Expecting first child so I can't help re ganim.
2. Bear in mind that jobs here pay something of transportation costs- I don't know if they have to legally or if they prefer to for tax purposes, but I've yet to encounter one that didn't. If you're working on the books, they should be covering the cost of commuting by public transportation, big companies often have hasa'ot (minibuses that pick up/drop off workers who live within a certain distance) instead. From Jerusalem, those rides are common to Gush Etzion, Givat Ze'ev, Maale Adumim, probably Beit Shemesh as well as pretty much any neighborhood in the city itself. Working from home parent can use cartisiot or a monthly bus pass, the math will depend on the bus fares involved. For us that's probably about 150 NIS/month.

4. Depends what you mean by tiny, I guess. We're in a 2-bedroom in the Katamon/Katamonim area, about 70 sq m total, 3500 NIS/month. Arnona (city property tax) is by square metrage and differs by city- Jerusalem has the highest in the country, I think something like 67NIS/sq m/year. I've heard of arnona as low as half that, I think in Ra'anana, but definitely worth clarifying for whatever municipalities you're looking at since 2 adjacent areas can have a difference of 100 or 200 NIS per month.

5. Smart shopping, especially if you avoid processed foods, can save you a fair amount. Chicken is a lot less expensive than meat from what I've seen (we cook mostly pareve for health reasons). Fresh fruits and veggies are well-priced in the shuk and in certain supermarkets, less so in other supermarkets or small groceries. We try to stick to what's in season- it tends to be fresher, better tasting, and cheaper. Milk is about 5 or 6 NIS/liter, depending on whether it's in a bag or a carton. We do eat out occasionally.

We make about 10,000/month after taxes and are able to put at least 1000 in savings most months (we've had some unexpected large expenses in the last year, plus the initial layout for baby things).
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 3:05 am
Ganim are paid for by the government, they often ask for 200-450 at the beginning of the year. Rent can differ greatly by location. For what you would pay for a 3 room in Jerusalem you can get a 5 room elsewhere.
Pp is right about the employer paying transportation.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 3:46 am
Quote:
I think the type of school we're looking for is what would be categorized as Chardal.

Quote:
We're open to living on a yishuv or moshav but due to job factors, finding the right school for our kids, and uncertainty about car ownership, our options may be limited.


Just about this one thing. There are Chardal Yishuvim. Very ideological and very Israeli. Much cheaper to live in than the city. Every Yishuv has some Anglos but I think the Chardal Yishuvim are mostly Israelis with Anglos that really want to be Israeli. Yishuvim with lots of Anglo Olim aren't Chardal though some are more Torani than others (I'm sure someone here will correct me which is fine cause you'll get better info like that)

Do you have any idea what kind of income you're expecting? I think 10,000 shekel a month is a safe guess for what you need (probably high for now). Gan/School is very cheap here since it's all gov't. even the private ones are cheap. Healthcare is cheap. Food is expensive but your kids are little so they don't eat a lot (yet).

If you're coming with good careers you'll do fine, but make sure they're good careers for here
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amother
Tan


 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 4:39 am
I have 3 children. paying for 1 gan. live pretty simply, but comfortable. (we just started leasing a car-which added about $450 a month)
we spend an average of $3000 monthly including everything.
we live in yerusahlayim, 2 bedroom apt, but very cheap rent.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 10:09 pm
Thank you for the helpful and thought-out replies.

I am not sure whether DH's job would pay for transportation or provide a bus. It is possible. Thank you for tipping me off that this is something to find out. I never would have thought to ask. Here only the really classy companies might do that, and even then probably only for their more valued employees.

I do not think I would do well in a very Israeli yishuv, unless there were a significant Anglo group. I am not really ready to BE Israeli; of course we're considering Aliyah because we would like to be Israeli, but at the same time I'm very nervous and would be more comfortable starting out in a place with more Anglo presence. I'm thinking also other kids-of-Anglos might be able to help my kids adjust better, bridge communication gaps, etc. I'm not sure I understand the difference between Chardal and Torani, exactly. Maybe if someone can help explain this better I could describe more accurately what we're looking for.

I'm not 100% sure what income to expect. I think I can bring in about $1000 USD (pre-tax) per month, and it depends what he can get but I think DH is looking at around anywhere between 3000-5000 NIS per month. So figure a total around 8000 shekel, give or take, and praying for blessings since DH still needs to actually be accepted for a job and my income is variable based on how much work I get in the given time frame.

We are not coming with great careers. My career is half dead as soon as I relocate, but I have certain types of work I can take with me - not the full-time-income part but the $1000 or so to help out. DH is early in a career that he will have to start at the bottom but can hope to do very well, in Israel, within a few years if all goes well. We have some savings to use for moving/setup expenses and are OK with using it if some months my income falls short of expectations, but we need to know that our projections are realistic in the first place so that we don't use up all our savings in a short amount of time and have no emergency backup left. If the couple of numbers shared here are anything to go by, our shortage is a little too big unless we can find a place with a really low cost of living... amother, what are you calling cheap rent on your Yerushalayim apartment?
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Peanut2




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 10:25 pm
What are your careers? Are you sure your husband is looking at 3000-5000 a month??

Gan is 'free' and I think goes until first grade, age 6. You pay some fees, but very low by American standards, and for aftercare if you need it. Elementary school is also not so expensive, high school more so, at least in the dati-leumi world, from what I have heard (Israelis who have been through this feel free to correct me).

Where you live makes a huge difference. Also if you don't eat much processed stuff and can do an Israel breakfast and are willing to adjust to eating cheaply, that shouldn't be a big deal. The stuff that makes a difference is comfort stuff, how you use utilities, eating out, stuff like that.Varies a lot.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 11:05 pm
I can triple-check but I'm pretty sure I have the right range for DH's projected income, it's pretty set but depends where he can get an in. And there's always the chance of ending up at the bottom of that range.

My kids are young enough that HS is not part of the equation yet. Let's survive the next few years until DH can get the experience he needs for a full-fledged profession and then we'll recalculate. Can't be worse than America, can it?

Where to live...where to live... needs to be near/commutable from wherever DH gets a job (more like internship really) which so far is likely to be Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, or Haifa; affordable; religious but not too chareidi (for illustration purposes only, I think here we could probably be considered RWMO but RW enough that I am not comfortable with just about any of the MO schools and am looking more for an out-of-town type day school where the school is "frum" but open minded and the student body mixed) and with enough Anglos for me to not be scared off. Bonus if it's not too urban, I would love a view of trees and in my fantasies (though I suppose I can wait until DH is more freely employable) our own garden patch and space for some pets, maybe laying hens. Hey if we're looking for a big move I can dream big, right? but for now priority is job, affordability, and community/school compatibility.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Mon, Apr 20 2015, 11:09 pm
About adjusting to eating cheaply, I can certainly deal with buying in season and not eating out (even pizza. We do pizza very very rarely currently) but I am not such a fan of things like foraging for edible weeds or fermenting my own yogurt. My kids like cheese and I will need at least ground beef on occasion. And I do hope they sell Bodek or equivalent broccoli in Israel. That must be my one biggest edible splurge. The whole family likes it and it's so healthy, so I shell out whatever it costs and try to save it for Shabbos mostly. Yes, my preschoolers get excited about broccoli as a Shabbos treat Smile
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Tue, Apr 21 2015, 5:34 am
Torani might be what you're looking for- are there any specific issues you could name that would make it easier to define what you're looking for? The lines between groups are a little different here. I think most mamlachti Torani places split classes from 3rd or 4th grade, someone with kids currently in elementary could probably tell you better. High schools are definitely split, boys learn serious gemara and many (most?) do hesder yeshiva after; girls schools ("ulpanot") have strong Judaics studies, dress code usually sleeves past the elbow and skirts past the knee. Specific communities vary in the student make-up, but you'll find at least some Anglos in all the Jerusalem suburbs. Probably some of the Tel Aviv and Haifa suburbs as well, though not as many.

Cheese isn't cheap, but there are a few kinds that are price-controlled by the government. The full list of price-controlled foods is here: http://www.moital.gov.il/NR/ex.....0.htm on the website of the Ministry of Industry, Trade and Labor. If you can get your kids to eat Israeli price-controlled cheese instead of more expensive imports or other types that aren't price-controlled, you can still budget well. Emek and Gilboa are both pretty good, both come sliced in packages of 200-400 grams.

There are supermarkets that sell Bodek (I can't remember off the top of my head which ones). Awesome that your kids love it! Smile
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dilego




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 21 2015, 5:49 am
Osher Ad, Rami Levy,Yesh by us here in Kiryat Sefer all sell Bodek.The package goes for 26-36 shekel roughly.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 21 2015, 6:27 am
amother wrote:
Torani might be what you're looking for- are there any specific issues you could name that would make it easier to define what you're looking for? The lines between groups are a little different here. I think most mamlachti Torani places split classes from 3rd or 4th grade, someone with kids currently in elementary could probably tell you better. High schools are definitely split, boys learn serious gemara and many (most?) do hesder yeshiva after; girls schools ("ulpanot") have strong Judaics studies, dress code usually sleeves past the elbow and skirts past the knee. Specific communities vary in the student make-up, but you'll find at least some Anglos in all the Jerusalem suburbs. Probably some of the Tel Aviv and Haifa suburbs as well, though not as many.

Cheese isn't cheap, but there are a few kinds that are price-controlled by the government. The full list of price-controlled foods is here: http://www.moital.gov.il/NR/ex.....0.htm on the website of the Ministry of Industry, Trade and Labor. If you can get your kids to eat Israeli price-controlled cheese instead of more expensive imports or other types that aren't price-controlled, you can still budget well. Emek and Gilboa are both pretty good, both come sliced in packages of 200-400 grams.

There are supermarkets that sell Bodek (I can't remember off the top of my head which ones). Awesome that your kids love it! Smile


Girls and boys are separated from first grade in Torani schools. The Mamad schools segregate later on. In our school it is from 5th grade.
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