What kind of nanny would you rather have?

Yael3

Sun, Apr 26 2015, 8:15 pm

I personally feel it's VERY important to have someone warm that can emotionally connect with your kids. I absolutely would not keep her because warmth can't be taught. I've had some good nannys, not so great, and EXCEPTIONAL ones. What I look for is someone that can take the initiative, follow simple rules (like don't mess up my kitchen in terms of kashrus and if you do make a mistake, it's okay but you have to tell me so I know what I need to do to fix it!), play/interact e.g. trips to the park, read books, play with toys, have conversations, etc. and you don't have to be a cook but you need to know how to make some basic healthy options for when I'm not around.

Sadie

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 4:53 am

I work as a nanny and the way you are writing about your nanny makes me seriously depressed and sad.
It may be that the two of you aren't a good fit and you should both look for other options, but... you are not treating her right.
You're talking about an older woman who already doing a very difficult job, taking care of kids, in the morning and then again in the afternoon/evening, and then you want to add housework to it too, even though that wasn't in the original agreement. It broke my heart to hear that she cried when when you presented her with a list of new jobs to do when the kids are in school. Let her rest and hire a cleaner! Even a mother who works hard all day is often too tired to be 100% for her kids at the end of the day, but you're expecting a nanny to be 100% when she's probably exhausted and doesn't even feel appreciated?
I also don't agree that a group of young children close in age need an adult in her 50's to play with them. Children should be able to make up their own games using their own imaginations and they only need adults around to make sure that they're being safe. She's not doing anything wrong by just supervising while they play.
I am also disturbed by what you said about her work days- that she can choose to work 5 or 6 days depending on whether she wants to stay for Shabbos. If she stays home for Shabbos (and yes, if she lives with you then your home is her home, although it doesn't sound like you're trying to make her feel at home at all) then she has to work? And if she doesn't want to work Shabbos she has to find somewhere else to be? Say it isn't so and I just misunderstood you...

Sadie

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 4:57 am

Also, I forgot to mention, expecting her to go "above and beyond" and read your mind about what you really want from her, instead of going by what you agreed, is not fair.
If you tell her to start at 8 don't be shocked when she shows up to meet you at 8.
I adore the kids I nanny for and I am friends with the mother but if we agree to begin work at X hour that is when I show up. I don't show up earlier out of the goodness of my heart, because I am doing a job, not charity work. If you need her at 7:50 to help get kids ready, tell her 7:50 and then pay her and thank her.

Raisin

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 5:20 am

If I could afford full time help I would want someone mainly to clean and help with food prep, and occasional babysitting. I prefer to handle my kids myself if I am at home.

Your nanny does not sound flexible. I also think you should give her clear times off. eg work from 7-12, take a 3 hour break, and then work from 3-7.

If you need someone to clean, I agree finding a new person who is willing to do both would work better for you.

This person does not sound terribly interested in either being a nanny, or cleaning.

amother

Gold

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 7:52 am

Ok first of all she isn't homeless - her choice to work an extra day or not is not me being mean to her! She has an apartment and maybe a social life and so I leave it to her if she wants to stay on Fridays or go. I don't put any pressure on her that we need her to stay. In fact I prefer when she goes but I never tell her to go because I know she would take it the wrong way. So every Friday when we are getting her salary together we say are you staying so we know what amount to give. It's always her call and she has a place to live when she isn't with us!
Also, her salary isn't by hourly. While she lives here - her food, toiletries etc are all paid for. I have friends with the same kind of situations who pay a lot less than me for the same days. My friend who has someone over 10 years now pays what I do. I started off high for where I live in terms of salary. I could definitely call an agency today and say I want to pay less per day and interview but I do the higher salary in order to find the higher quality or so I hope....
Mine does not do any cooking. She says she cannot find her way around the kitchen. The most she does for the kids is pancakes in a toaster. She has never made any other food for them.
So her role is the cleaning and the child care but child care without providing meals. Child care for her is helping them get dressed, watching them play after school, bath time. Her cleaning role is cleaning up after the kids, dishes, laundry, making beds. Like I said she has at least 6 hours during the day with a quiet house and nobody home to do those things. She takes meal times as breaks - she watches tv and reads the paper after she eats.
And to the poster who said she felt sorry for her that she cried when my youngest started school and I approached her with a schedule of how to keep the house in order - sorry but she came aboard with a baby in the house but the baby grew up. If all she wanted to do was care for a baby she should have quit. The job changed. I was not going to have her sit around 6 hours a day and pay her a salary and on top of that hire a cleaning lady daily - we are NOT made of money! Her role changed to adapt with what was needed here but if that wasnt what she wanted, she has free will to find what she does want. I wasnt keeping her here. But if she was staying, there was a new role to take on now that one role closed. In the end she did it but as I said, she told me to have a cleaning lady twice a month on top of her which I agreed too (and also something none of my friends do).

amother

Gold

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 8:00 am

And as far as starting at 750 on pesach - I was letting her go home as early as I could and I wasnt saying she needed to be with us till 8 PM because that was what I was paying for. I would hope that if I was giving her a little she would give me a little too.
Her week on pesach was basically free as my kids went to a day camp every single day! So coming around 10 minutes early one day once she was already in the hotel couldn't have been too much to ask.....I didn't ask her to work a minute more on the other end, I let her go home early as often as I could.

nylon

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 8:31 am

At $100/day, you are paying her $8.33/hr (less than minimum wage in some states, including New York, and the IRS does not permit you to use room and board to make up the minimum wage). You are expecting her to do housework as well as childcare - most nannies will not do more than pick up after the children. Legally, it doesn't matter if you call it a salary. She's considered hourly. Nannies are not non-exempt employees and she's legally entitled to time and a half above 40 hours a week. Yes - we all know the law is not obeyed - but nannies are not stupid. The good ones know what they can command.

You do not have reasonable expectations here. Even if you could get a nanny for less--you get what you pay for and you are seeing the fruits of that.

Frumdoc

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 9:37 am

Another point, if she has to stay in the house during the day even when she has finished her chores, this counts as work time (in Europe, legally, anyway).

Unless you say that this is time off, go out, do what you want, and your work hours are 7am to 11am, then 4pm till 7pm, to cover childcare plus 2 hours cleaning, then you need to consider thst she is working and either fill her time properly with tasks or officially give her the time off.

Right now, it seems she doesn't have a lot to do to fill those 6 hours but you are complaining that she sits around doing very little.

Sounds like it all needs renegotiation without post it notes as communication devices.
Think about what you would find reasonable to do during the day as a starting point, and factor in her age. How do you normally divide tasks between the two of you?

imasoftov

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 9:39 am

nylon wrote:

In this video, Mary Poppins complains about working for $7.25 an hour. "Just a three dollar increase, it makes a living wage" has the same meter as "Just a spoon full of medicine ..."

Barbara

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 10:18 am

I'm leaving aside issues of pay (and BTW, if she's a live-in, isn't there an attribution of reasonable rent to her pay?).

You need to decide if you want a housekeeper with occasional babysitting duties, or if you want a nanny who will also do light housekeeping (usually just picking up after the kids). It's probably an either-or; getting both is rare.

IMNSHO, your current help is failing at both. She's not sufficiently interacting with your children to make her a good nanny. And she doesn't want to clean.

Tablepoetry

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 10:24 am

She doesn't seem like the best employee. And of course she can't just do childcare if your kids are out all day, as others suggested. What, pay someone to sit around all day?

That said, her work day is extremely long, even if she's only doing very light housework. Just the thought of being on call for 12 hrs is exhausting. I would seriously consider giving her real breaks during the day, preferably two hours where she can nap or whatever.she'll come back with more stamina. And anyway, do you really have nine hours of light housekeeping for her a day? I doubt it.

And I would prefer a warm nanny, but I wouldn't let her shadow my role. I guess if she's bathing your kids, etc, they could potentially see a warm nanny as substitute mom.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 10:30 am

amother wrote:

She makes 100 a day. She decides if she works 5 days in a week or 6. I don't ask for 6 but if she wants to stay on Shabbos it's up to her. Sometimes she does and sometimes not. Also she doesn't run my errands ever...that's totally not in the job description. She has 2 weeks paid vacation and 5 sick days and all national holidays off.

She didn't work for me when my youngest was a new baby. I think she started when she was either one or two I can't remember.

Whoa!! That's not even minimum wage ! Disgusting!

Miri7

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 10:59 am

I have had a few nannies over the years to care for small children while I work PT or FT. they have all been the really loving type and would get on the floor and play, play at the park etc. That is a basic requirement for the job for me.

You need to be really clear from the beginning on what you expect and be sure those expectations are fair and reasonable. Most nannies are ok with doing light housework - kids laundry, keeping toys sorted and put away, and light kitchen (ours tidies up the breakfast mess).

You also need to be sure that you pay fairly. We live OOT in an expensive area and nannies earn about $16 an hour. I don't know how live in nannies are paid.

Onisa

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 12:58 pm

Let me share my experience. I was taking care of children 1,3 3 5 and supervising 7 and 11. From 6:30 to 8:00 o'clock sometimes longer. I was doing dishes, laundry, cleaning ect and picking, playing with kids. I was fun enjoyable and most of the time flexible. I got amazing room, beautiful bathroom, anything from the fridge and a very nice lady. I got some salary but a lot lower min wage. I was not always the best employee and was fired. Most of the time I have enjoyed being there because the lady of the house was extremely nice.
What could be better?
I could have less hours.
More very strict, concrete rules, prioritized lists
I would like to be more knowledgable about family dynamic from the beginning. It was very hard to digest family skeletons from the closet after I have agreed to work.
I and the lady of the house were extremely different and it was not the best match. After spending there a year I knew exactly what I do not want my family to look like.
The family was treating me more like a servant than like a nany-mommy helper it was humiliating sometimes.

Fox

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 2:43 pm

I'm reluctant to sound ageist, but nannying is really a young woman's (or man's) game.

With obvious exceptions, most of us in our 50s don't have the patience or energy to supervise rambunctious kids for hours on end. You hit 50 or thereabouts, and you find that you just need a lot more down time.

I would probably select a date within the next three months that makes sense logically (e.g., the end of school; the start of camp for older kids, etc.) and tell her that you will not be needing her after that date. You don't have to give an elaborate reason; just tell her that your arrangements are changing. Give her 2 weeks' pay as a sort of severence gift along with a nice reference letter.

Before you hire someone else, think carefully about what your overall goal is. As other posters have mentioned, you need to have a clear sense of your own priorities. Your goals and priorities have probably changed since your baby was small.

Remember, the reason you're hiring a nanny is the economic principle of Ricardo's Law of Comparative Advantage: it allows you to do things that you're better at doing. Unless you've thought through what talents *you* bring to your family and want to concentrate on, you're not going to be satisfied with anyone you hire; you'll just be setting a moving target that no one can hit.

As for the relationship end of things, children are capable of loving more than one person. They *should* love their nanny, but it doesn't mean they love you less. Love is not like pizza. The fact that the nanny gets a lot doesn't mean you're left with the box.

However, I don't advise that you make your nanny a children's entertainment director. Kids don't need and shouldn't have constant adult playmates. Nannies can and should do trips to the park; trips to the library or other low-key outings; playdates with other nannies and kids -- but children need to learn some self-sufficiency in their play.

Hatzlacha!

imasinger

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:10 pm

I think anyone who is intimately involved in the lives of children should be loving and lovable.

There are many ways to be this way. Some grandmotherly types might offer more in the way of hugs and nice words. They also may have more experience with a variety of circumstances. Others might be more like a grown sister or an aunt, ready to join in the fun, yet still in control. Still others might be more like a second mother, providing both adult type playing, and discipline.

But I would not want my kids in the hands of a caretaker who came across as cold. Both kids and caretaker should be usually happy to see each other and spend time together. A caretaker should take pride in children's developing abilities, and foster them when possible.

I agree with others that this seems like a poor fit. It sounds like that has been a problem for a while. Trust your judgment.

I also agree that the salary sounds low. Around where I live, nannies make upwards of $15/hr.

amother

Gold

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 7:37 pm

OP here
I just want to say that it seems I am being attacked because of her age - as if I am forcing a 50 year old woman to work for me?! She has a job here and she is aware of the job. If she wants to quit I am not stopping her! I am not saying you have to work for me! Some of you are acting like I am a terrible person for employing her.
The salary is the salary. She can choose not to be here. Some areas the rates are higher but where I live I am paying well. I do not know a single person who pays more than I do. I know people who pay the same. And some have kids that are older and need their help around later than 7 PM so the day is even longer than ours. It may seem unfair but this is how it is around here...like I said she has prerogative to quit and go elsewhere if she wanted.