Help! Not managing- what do people do?

ra_mom

Sun, Apr 26 2015, 7:17 pm

Maya wrote:

She stated that she doesn't want to work because she wants to be the one raising her kids.

She states that she took a part time job recently and it's making her into a monster, she needs the money but won't go full time because she doesn't want someone else raising her kids (presumably she is currently out of the house while the kids are at school and while doesn't have to pay extra for childcare now the stress of juggling is eating her up).

Lots of good advice here op. Hugs, hugs.
It's hard but I am sure you will figure out what to do. I hate working too, my life is a crazy hamster wheel but unfortunately I don't have a choice.

Just a thought, if rent is more expensive, can you rent out the home and rent a smaller apartment for yourself? Would renting out the house bring in enough to cover the mortgage plus some extra to help with a smaller rental apartment for yourself?

Can you babysit kids during the day to bring in the extra $375 a week that you are missing instead of working out of the home?

Barbara

Sun, Apr 26 2015, 7:33 pm

Raisin wrote:

I hope you are not planning on sending your kid to Harvard or Yale or any university, I hear they give scholarships too to students from poor homes.

Actually, lots of schools count home equity in the EFC.

What they don't do is reduce EFC based on a high mortgage. Or on the fact that you're paying for private school. They're looking at INCOME and assets. IOW, a fast and dirty way to calculate your EFC is based on income and number of dependents. It won't be exact.

But in any case, you might do well to read what I'm saying, instead of attacking me just because you want to be nasty.

I said that had OP suffered a reversal in her economic fortunes, I would have agreed that she should receive tuition assistance.

But buying a house that put her $1500 a month in the hole, then saying that she wouldn't work full time because it was just too hard for her, and "she wanted to be the one to raise her children" doesn't work with me.

Amarante

Sun, Apr 26 2015, 8:24 pm

There is a famous quote from Charles Dickens' David Copperfield

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."

The OP asked WWYD and doesn't deserve condemnation. I know when I first started out I had no idea about how costly it was to actually live. I kept getting "unexpected" expenses every month until I realized that EVERY month had unexpected expenses of one kind or another. I had a sense of "entitlement" - not that I had been brought up wealthy or that my parents had given me everything I wanted - far from it. However, I never had to worry about things like insurance, car repairs, medical or dental bills and was lucky enough not to have any education loans even though I went through Post Graduate studies. I used my credit card - luckily not to the extent where I dug myself in a hole that would take but enough to teach me a lesson as I spent a few years paying off stuff that wasn't critical or emergency. Did I really want to be paying off a meal I had eaten 2 years before? :-)

In terms of WWYD, you really need to sit down first - take a deep breath - and figure out exactly what you are spending in terms of fixed expenses - I.e. mortgage, utilities etc. and then see how much exactly is going to be left over.

One thing that helped me a LOT was the Starbucks theory of budgeting. That is, most people concentrate on large expenses but a LOT of money is leaked out by spending a little big of money on a regular basis. For example, I decided I no longer NEEDED Starbucks when I realized that it was costing me $1500 a year - or in a decade I would have spent $15,000 on COFFEE. And that's without even counting appreciation if I had invested it - or interest if I had charged it.

But as others have pointed out, $1500 a month is a LOT of debt to be accumulating - in a few years, if not stopped, it will have accumulated into a mountain almost impossible to dig yourself out of. And "interest" costs since credit card interest isn't tax deductible.

So sit down with your husband and really go over your income and expenses - not with an intent of making him feel guilty at being a poor earner but because you are a partnership in the "business" of your family. As others have pointed out, not with the intent of making you feel bad, being a SAHM is a luxury and generally whether in the Frum community or the secular world, most women work unless the husband is EXTREMELY well paid or they live very frugally or they live in a completely careless hand to mouth existence which is emotionally very difficult for most people - see above Charles Dickens quote :-)

amother

Coral

Sun, Apr 26 2015, 9:55 pm

op. thanks for the helpful comments. I don't want to say too much because I don't want people to realize who I am and there are a lot of comments I completely disagree with. In other countries it is perfectly normal for women not to work. Up until late 1900's it was normal here too. Mothers should be raising their children. It's part of chinuch habanim. Children who are raised by a nanny or babysitter don't turn out the same. I know I'll get a hundred of you disagreeing with me- but it's true. A school has no right to tell a mother they can't give a break because she doesn't work. They can't tell a family how they should be running their family or raising their children. And there are many people who get a break when the husband is getting a decent salary in kollel, the wife has a great job- their income is way above others and for some reason they still get a break despite the fact that they can afford help, vacations, etc. And to whoever said it's irresponsible to have more children if you can't afford - that is SO ANTI-TORAH! And to whoever said shame on yeshivahs - I agree! How can they be ok with letting a jewish child go to public school??
And just so you know no one would ever suspect this of me which is why I don't want to answer some of the questions.

Maya

Sun, Apr 26 2015, 9:59 pm

amother wrote:

Perhaps you should move to one of those countries.
There is a strong entitlement attitude in this post.

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Apr 26 2015, 10:06 pm

I've been told on this board before that I'm anti-Torah because we had 2 kids, then ran into some financial issues, realized that if we had more children, we might need a tuition break and opted not to have more children for that reason (among others--- we'd need a larger car, we'd need to spend more on food/clothing/etc). In my opinion, doing your best to spend your own money and not other people's money *IS* in line with Torah. I would LOVE to have another child or two, but it would be financially irresponsible for me to do so KNOWING that I would have to ask for financial assistance in yeshiva. Where in Torah does it say to have child after child without knowing how to support those children financially?

Anon because I don't want to be known on here as the anti-Torah gal or the gal who stopped at 2 on purpose or the gal who would need financial assistance if she had another child.....

amother

Emerald

Sun, Apr 26 2015, 10:12 pm

amother wrote:

I understand WHY you bought your house (as an investment) but it may not have been the CORRECT thing to do.

Some posters have asked what has changed financially that you thought you could afford it when you bought it and now you cant. This is a major point.

I personally bought my house 10 years ago before the bubble, my mortgage is less than I could get a 1 bedroom apartment. Even if you take into account property tax, utilities etc. I am still paying less than a 2 bedroom apartment. I cant move out/sell my house if I wanted to. It wouldnt financially make sense. If I was asking for a tuition break I would bring this point to the forefront.

BTW....the one year I did ask for scholarship we filled out the form the way we felt comfortable. We showed them that we had 2 fully paid for cars but refused to tell them what we paid for the cars. There was a comment section. I wrote how I am using baby gear from my first baby (who was 7 at the time) and all the clothes I was using were hand-me-downs and my daughter was the 3rd person to wear the clothes. I wrote all of this because I wanted them to know that although it looks like I have money (house, 2 cars, etc) I dont have the liquid money to pay tuition. I was only asking for $500 break each month and I did get the reduction. If they would have denied it I would have asked for a face to face meeting to find out why I couldnt get it, what part of my finances they "disapproved of"

saw50st8

Sun, Apr 26 2015, 10:12 pm

amother wrote:

OP, no one is denying your children a Jewish education. Homeschool them. That will get you out of your financial hole and allow you to be with your children 100% of the time instead of having teachers in school raise them.

No one owes you the luxury of your husband shirking his responsibility of teaching his children Torah. If he wants to do that, he has to pay for it.

I agree with Maya - you sound so entitled.

Signed, someone who would LOVE to quit her job but can't afford a yeshiva education for her kids otherwise.

amother

Black

Sun, Apr 26 2015, 10:29 pm

I'm going to post here from a little of the opposite perspective.

I work. My husband doesn't, by mutual choice. I don't want him working, I couldn't handle it if he worked. I make a nice salary ($150K) but since we live in NYC that doesn't buy us more than a bare bones existence. Tiny apartment, no car, no vacations, you get the picture. DH used to work but the income he brings in is nowhere near mine, and if he was working all the responsibility for childcare and housework would fall on me. The amount he'd be earning would not cover those expenses. Not to mention the stress of who takes off work when a child is sick or has vacation. We have been there, there was a time that we both worked but it just didn't make financial sense for us, and last year he quit his job. After he took over the household duties I was more able to focus on work and bring in more income.

Bottom line, unless both parents have very high earning potential it does not always make personal, emotional or financial sense for both parents to be working.

Amarante

Sun, Apr 26 2015, 10:29 pm

OK at this point, it appears the OP really wasn't asking WWYD but is just whining about the unfairness of life.

It really is irrelevant to say that women didn't work in the 1900's. They also lived in 3 room cold water walk up apartments with the toilet in the hallway. Visit the Tenement Museum on the LES and see what life was back in the "good old days". And women DID work back then when times got hard.

And without saying that running a household isn't hard now, how much harder was it back then when there was no take out or appliances. :-)

I look back at my childhood and how much less expensive a middle class life was - no computers; no cell phones; people made do with one car - or no car. The original homes in Levittown were I think two bedrooms upstairs and one bathroom and they were considered a real step up for the returning WW II veterans.

But even back then, I grew up with a mother who worked and looking back it was hard for her of course but economically it would have been quite a strain if my family had to rely on my father solely.

I think what other posters are saying is where exactly are the Yeshivahs supposed to get money from in order to subsidize your decision to stay home? If no one works, there would be no money at all for scholarships which would include no money for what one might call the "deserving poor" - I.e. those who need help through no fault of their own because of hard luck life has thrown them - death, disease or other issues.

My joke is that for almost everyone work is what they have to pay you to do. Except for a very few people I've known whose jobs are generally physically easy and prestigious, most people would not work if they didn't have to.

Either you need to make more money or reduce your expenses. There really is no magic formula and to rely on the kindness of people who are working hard when they would prefer not to is kind of chutzpadick :-).

DrMom

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 1:01 am

amother wrote:

I was sympathetic until this post.

Your thread title is "Help! Not managing- what do people do?" People told you what they do: They work and are fiscally responsible. You don't seem to like that answer.

amother

Crimson

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 1:34 am

Hi OP, new amother here.

I can relate to your situation. About 10 years ago we sold our first house (at a loss) after running into basically the same situation as you are in. I have a few things to say:

1. Mothers DO work, FULL-TIME. They care for their children and for their homes. They nurture, educate, heal, shop, cook, clean, entertain, fix, coordinate, organize, plan... In short, they provide countless essential services that benefit their families, which in turn, benefits all of society. However, mothers are (unfortunately) not paid to provide these services. (But if they leave their homes and their home-based responsibilities during the day, they can pay someone ELSE to do those services.)

The fact that this system is warped is not the OP's fault. Every mother understands this. But almost everyone has bought into the idea that they have no choice, and must work outside the home.

Some people want to work outside the home, some people need to, some people can work from home, some people can work part-time, some people can telecommute, etc... many possibilities. But none of that takes away from the fact that, in an ideal world, mothers (or fathers) who provided essential services for their families and homes would be paid for it!

OK. So staying home with your kids is a choice (a choice I greatly respect). But... you do need to be able to survive financially. So...

2. Keep doing everything frugal that you're doing. And, do more frugal things.

3. Try to sell your unneeded stuff, constantly. Always have something listed (Craigslist, etc.). Good side money, that can add up to pay a few bills.

4. Dave Ramsey - yes, especially if you are in debt.

5. If you have two cars, could you get rid of one? Or can you sell a car and buy a cheaper one?

6. Go over ALL of your bills and decide how (almost) every single one could be lower. Make calls to companies to ask for better deals, rates, breaks, offers.

7. And the biggie... the one that will revolutionize your financial life, and life in general: please seriously consider homeschooling. There is so much support now because more and more people are doing it. It is amazing. Not perfect, definitely tradeoffs to be made, but worth it! Even if you just decide to homeschool for ONE YEAR, you will save an amazing amount of money and your whole family will benefit in other ways as well. Commit to two years of homeschooling while you get your financial bearings, and then re-evaluate. Whatever you think might work for you. (Two years is good because after the first year you are just starting to figure it out and it starts getting even better.)

If you decide to homeschool, you will NOT be alone. There is a homeschooling board right here on Imamother, which is a good place to start. There are also groups on Facebook, Yahoo groups, websites like Chinuch.org and Room613 to take care of limudei kodesh, and many more.

Iymnok

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 6:05 am

Op, you say that 100 years ago women didn't work. They didn't work in law firms, they washed laundry, were teachers, secretaries, seamstresses, nannies, maids, ran stores, worked in sweatshops, were writers, bakers, ran restaurants.
They contributed to the family income (the children worked too...)
it wasn't as romantic as you've painted it in your head. The mother of the house has always had to work hard to make sure her family was well taken care of.
It's called real life, and it takes hard work, stress and sweat. With siyatta dishmaya you can live the ideal life you dream of. But right now you need to put in some hishtadlus and step out of your comfort zone for a year or two (or 3).
Talk to your husband! Why are you coddling him? He's a responsible adult who cares about his family, he wants to know that you can't afford bread and milk.