Help! Not managing- what do people do?

amother

Bronze

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:29 pm

SRS wrote:

Outside of the modern Orthodox schools, pray tell which "high standards" these are? Because as a parent I look at these very expensive schools and just don't see anything on the general side that can rival what the public schools offer: not facilities, not special resources, not science, not sports, not gifted programs, not advanced placement courses, not vocational programs, not teacher salaries and benefits. Nothing. I don't think it is their fault. They don't have a big enough student body to do it all.

We send to day school because public schools cannot offer a Jewish environment and education first and foremost and a consistently nice set of children that mostly share our values especially going into the middle and high school years.

But the schools are not charging these tuition amounts because they are providing extreme programming. They are mostly charging the tuition amounts they do in hopes of enough parents paying those amounts to cover what the school needs to operate.

Education does not need facilities or special programs and the like. You just need a good teacher who is creative enough to get the job done. I went to Modern Orthodox schooling. The schools need to focus on Learning and not fitting into what society thinks should be part of education. That is why many are starting to opt for homeschooling because they want their kids to actually learn.

tichellady

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:32 pm

amother wrote:

I am not the OP. This is just my opinion. I am just commenting on the fact that people say that being a SAHM is a luxury. For many people it's not. Many people can't handle working and being a mom. Nobody has the right
to say otherwise.

if the choice to be a SAHM does not affect others, then I agree. If you now depend on the community to pay for your expenses , then I disagree. If a woman really can't handle working and being a mother she needs to make sure her family can live within their means NOT expect the community to subsidize their yehsiva education. It would be great if that was a realistic option but it just isn't a viable solution.

CantBe

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:35 pm

Raisin wrote:

Also, Op, you might not think you are cut out for homeschooling a bunch of kids, or homeschool a boy who needs to learn mishnayos, but maybe homeschool one or two of them. Perhaps the preschool aged kids, where they are mostly just playing anyway.

That's what I was going to say. I assume you're not going to list your kid's ages since you mentioned being afraid of being identified, but if you have any pre-school kids, keep them home with you all day!! Look how many tuitions you'll do away with. Don't just shop and housework all day. Make a plan. Teach the Chagim. Sing songs. Go to the park. Arts and crafts... Maybe you can even find another mother who wants to share so you each get 2 mornings off a week and the kids get to learn to socialize, share - (actually, my mother and my aunt both had teaching licenses and my aunt often watched me together with her child and my mother worked as a substitute and vice-a-versa. I don't know if it was once or twice a week)

Are you currently paying tuition, babysitters for pre-school children? What time do your children come home?

If all your children are older than pre-school, they're in school till 5:00? You can work even full time and be home on time to raise them

ETA: added (actually..

Last edited by CantBe on Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Bronze

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:37 pm

tichellady wrote:

Sorry but what you are saying is that the school has the right to set the fees to whatever they want and everybody else has to work their lives around it. Every child is entitled to a jewish upbringing and shouldn't have to deal with their mom or dad being ultra maxed out by working so many jobs just because the schools want to have such high standards.

SRS

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:47 pm

amother wrote:

The schools really are not setting tuition at the rates they want. They are setting tuition to cover those who will pay that amount in full, those who will pay a lesser amount, and those who are on heavy scholarship in hopes that when they add up everything that will come in after some parents simply fall behind on payment, that there will be cash to run a school that the parents will want to send to.

It is not a pretty situation and plenty of people (myself included) are very maxed out.

tichellady

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 3:54 pm

amother wrote:

I am not saying that. I actually have no idea what you are talking about . I am saying that people can't all plan their lives being dependant on charity- because Where is this money supposed to come from. Yes it's very nice to say that all children are entitled to a Jewish education. Are you planning on paying for the education of all Jewish children? Should the teachers and administrators all work for free and neglect their families for this important cause?

We have a big issue here because yeshivas are not subsidized by the government and tuition isn't tax deductible. Even a very basic school needs to Charge a lot of money per child in order to provide an ok education. Orthodox families also tend to have a lot of children. It's not realistic for every father to be able to cover all his family's expenses and pay full tuition ( even at a school that offers the bare minimum). Yes, it's annoying and sad and frusturating. That doesn't make it not true.
That's why most families live on two incomes or limit their family size or homeschool or move to cheap locations or live very frugally. If you would like to find a better solution to this issue, then please do! We will all be appreciative.

Sanguine

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 4:09 pm

amother wrote:

Every child is entitled to a jewish upbringing and shouldn't have to deal with their mom or dad being ultra maxed out by working so many jobs just because the schools want to have such high standards.

The problem is that there's a very large gap between what people earn. People who earn a lot want all the "extras" in their children's education and they think it's no big deal to pay for it - they even "demand" it. Why should't the school have high standards? (that's how they feel). - I know that (MO) summer camps have changed tremendously. Only the rich can afford it, and they go for only one month. But the camps no longer serve "bug juice". They have fresh orange juice at all meals, cause that's what the kids are used to.

So these people expect better physical conditions (really, look at some of their houses), and - Education has changed too. There is so much more available now to help children learn. Don't you want to give your child "the best" education you can?

So that's the problem. The schools keep upgrading and they have parents who can pay for it and demand it (otherwise, they'll switch schools). That's why the schools have such a high standard.

Barbara

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 5:37 pm

Sanguine wrote:

But if other parents demanded other things, then schools for them would exist as well.

For example, in the MO world, some communities have started lower-priced schools with "blended" education -- a mix of computer-based and live instruction. Now, I don't have a dog in this race; I've paid my very last day school tuition bill. But I don't like the idea. At least not for my kid. So I'd be willing to pay more for traditional education. The fact still remains, many parents demanded a less expensive option, so one was created to meet that demand.

Similarly, MO camps come in a number of price points. But, as the mother of a kid who worked at one of the most expensive ones, let me assure you, they may have air conditioning in the bunks, and fancy ropes courses and whatever else. But the food was still terrible.

Barbara

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 6:13 pm

amother wrote:

What "facilities" and "special programs" would you eliminate from your children's schools?

mille

Mon, Apr 27 2015, 6:17 pm

amother wrote:

Actually not. The schools should be working around what is feasibly affordable . Parents shouldnt' have to break their backs and not be able to raise their kids properly just because a school wants to have a certain standard of building etc. The schools aren't exactly frugal. Even without buying a home the tuition prices are wayyy over the top. The financial stress has probably caused many problems in the community.

No matter what you think, private school is a luxury. Education is a necessity, but private school is a luxury. Food is a necessity, but steak dinner every night is a luxury.

See what I mean?

You are obligated to give your child an education that includes Torah, but you are not obligated to send your child to an expensive private school to do so.

DrMom

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 1:00 am

Sanguine wrote:

This.

If I were doing well financially and I were already paying for private religious school, I'd want to make sure my kids get an excellent education.

OTOH, if I were just scraping by, I suppose I'd be happier if tuition were lower and all the extras were cut to the bare bones.

The school is probably going to cater to the local community in order to capture the highest number of local students. If you are one of the few who is scraping by and the vast majority of families in your community are doing well financially, then you are going to be priced out of the school, unless they have awesome financial aid.

Is there another school that is more affordable in your general area?

saw50st8

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 7:29 am

Barbara wrote:

That's my son's school! It's half the price of the more expensive schools in town and makes it affordable for us to send our kids to private school (we still need to both work full time to send there though).

Barbara

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:12 am

saw50st8 wrote:

I was thinking of you when I wrote that, although I was referring to a school closer to my community than to yours.

And schools like that work for a lot of kids. I'm happy they exist. I'm happy that people are thinking out of the box and trying new things to keep down the cost of education.

But all of those bells and whistles that some people are attacking are good -- even necessary -- for some kids. They were for mine. And I thank Hashem every day that they existed.

Raisin

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:19 am

Barbara wrote:

I don't think people are attacking them, and they are wonderful. Sometimes its the choice between more kids who are not budding concert pianists or professional sports players or whatever, and less kids who are.

(although saw50states kids do not appear to be deprived of extra curricular stuff)

Necessary is an exageration. Food, water, shelter is necessary. Quality education is necessary.

As I said, no reason schools can't offer these things as optional extras.

saw50st8

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:33 am

Raisin wrote:

Music and Art are integral to learning. There are plenty of studies that show that having music and art as part of the regular curriculum enhances the ability to learn and absorb other information better.

A gym class (which is not expensive to run at all) is important for development as well.

Quality programming is expensive. It's not just a matter of a classroom (some subjects that works, but science for example needs labs and equipment).

My kids school is now moving into a new building. The principal was talking about making the shul room into a multi purpose beis medrash so that the space is utilized effectively. Optimizing space and resources is more important than just cutting things out.

Barbara

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:51 am

Raisin wrote:

Actually, I said I don't like the idea of those schools.

I think that they're okay for in the box, smart kids. I think that they are likely to be a disaster for out of the box kids, and for kids who need extra attention.

Raisin

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 12:32 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

I did not go to a fancy school but we had art, p.e, swimming, etc. No official music as in piano lessons or whatever, and we did the normal choirs etc. In high school we had sewing, and cooking as well. My kids school also incorporates art and music and pe - most primary school teachers are capable of teaching one or more of these subject and in my kids school the teacher who is good at art does art with all the classes, the teacher who is musical, with all and so on. They might have one additional specialist teacher who comes in for P.E. In addition, after school there are extra art, music, (I think guitar or keyboard) chess, sports and other classes you can pay extra for. There are no special art or science rooms at primary school level.

BTW our school doubled as a shul, and the main shul room doubled as a gym and assembly room. (The aron hakodesh was completely covered).

Barbara, I h