Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
Spinoff-White collar crime vs violent crime
Previous  1  2  3



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 04 2015, 1:11 pm
Thanks to Fox, Squishy and SRS for their input and Marina for her admission of speeding. Speeding is a no go around here with speed cameras in weird places. I will admit I do put my pedal to the metal when it comes to freeway driving if I'm in the mood.

I have a lot of compassion for folks who have to work under the table, if they have no other choices as a short term solution to employment. In the long term I can't see how it's sustainable. I ran into someone last week who spent their entire working life getting paid under the table. They have no retirement savings, no SS, and because of no SS they are on Medicaid.
Back to top

SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 04 2015, 2:37 pm
Squishy, you mentioned 1099ing a cleaning person and that is what I was responding to. I went back to try and correct and clarify the language of my other post to differentiate between hire and contract with. I'm not backtracking, really. It is a tough subject that requires clarification, but it isn't fair to put up a single IRS example that is cut and dry and declare that the same applies to cleaning help as the situation there can be far more nuanced. I completely agree that once your cleaning person is babysitting, they are most likely your household employee.

IF you are contracting with a cleaning person as a legitimate contractor, the reason to issue a 1099 is because you are using the cleaning person in the course of business. Issuing a 1099 is a business responsibility, not the responsibility of individuals engaged in a contractual relationship like hiring a private ballet coach for their daughter. But you are correct, these are complicated issues. My main point is that when there is systemic culture of fraud and tax evasion, pointing fingers that this one or that one doesn't issue a W-2 is usually a detraction. I believe in being careful and crossing those t's. But widespread HUD fraud is not the same, nor would it be treated the same in the court of law if discovered.

My own observation is that in the larger Jewish communities, I see a lot more cleaning help in the role of a household employee and they would receive a W-2, not a 1099 if people were interested in compliance. It is not across the board however as the tests can provide some complication. In more out of town communities, I think it is more common to see cleaning help functioning in the role of contractors. Out of town people seem to use less help, which pretty much forces those who are in the cleaning line of work to put themselves out there as a proprietor, advertise, and invest in a business. In a former community, I knew families that always had someone in the home. I can't think of anyone here that has someone in the home most hours except for a small handful of families and they are all high powered professionals that would not risk non-compliance.
Back to top

33055




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 04 2015, 3:22 pm
SRS wrote:
Squishy, you mentioned 1099ing a cleaning person and that is what I was responding to. I went back to try and correct and clarify the language of my other post to differentiate between hire and contract with. I'm not backtracking, really. It is a tough subject that requires clarification, but it isn't fair to put up a single IRS example that is cut and dry and declare that the same applies to cleaning help as the situation there can be far more nuanced. I completely agree that once your cleaning person is babysitting, they are most likely your household employee.

IF you are contracting with a cleaning person as a legitimate contractor, the reason to issue a 1099 is because you are using the cleaning person in the course of business. Issuing a 1099 is a business responsibility, not the responsibility of individuals engaged in a contractual relationship like hiring a private ballet coach for their daughter. But you are correct, these are complicated issues. My main point is that when there is systemic culture of fraud and tax evasion, pointing fingers that this one or that one doesn't issue a W-2 is usually a detraction. I believe in being careful and crossing those t's. But widespread HUD fraud is not the same, nor would it be treated the same in the court of law if discovered.

My own observation is that in the larger Jewish communities, I see a lot more cleaning help in the role of a household employee and they would receive a W-2, not a 1099 if people were interested in compliance. It is not across the board however as the tests can provide some complication. In more out of town communities, I think it is more common to see cleaning help functioning in the role of contractors. Out of town people seem to use less help, which pretty much forces those who are in the cleaning line of work to put themselves out there as a proprietor, advertise, and invest in a business. In a former community, I knew families that always had someone in the home. I can't think of anyone here that has someone in the home most hours except for a small handful of families and they are all high powered professionals that would not risk non-compliance.

Your post is fairer with the changed tax language. I wished you changed the language denigrating my community. Oh well. It is not true how ignorant the people are. Sometimes they know the ways around the laws better than attorneys know the laws. They also know the ways around reporting requirements. I am not praising them. I suppose government law is easier to understand than gemura.

My single example is the same single example the IRS uses to explain when this complicated subject when answering who is an employee in their publication. They felt one example was sufficient to introduce the subject. I agree with them. I used the pertinent parts of their other example of who is not an employee only because I thought others would get bored with talking about taxes.

Once your cleaning person is taking directions from you such as clean the floor and keep the meat stuff separate from the milk whether they came from an agency and work one hour and wear a uniform they crossed that line. They are an employee. It is not a question of whether someone is home or not. It is more simple. Do they follow any directions from the homeowners?

Whether or not you have tax liability for them depends on how large an amount you pay them for the year.

By not giving directions, I follow a bright line test. I give my directions to someone else who communicates it to them. My heskofa is such that I don't allow them alone when I am cooking so I am there a significant time they are, however, I honestly don't care how they clean my house as long as it is spotless.
Back to top

SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 04 2015, 3:31 pm
I did not mean to denigrate any community and try to be careful. I'm tired of scandals and I know people who are both uninformed about things and people who are just plain evaders or fraudsters. They are two different types of people. We can educate and inform the first set. The second set needs distanced.
Back to top
Page 3 of 3 Previous  1  2  3 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Urgent - mistakenly baked chicken with the white plastic 2 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 1:06 pm View last post
White shirts for rosh chodesh
by amother
1 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 9:30 pm View last post
Non see through white Shabbos top
by amother
2 Mon, Mar 18 2024, 5:12 pm View last post
Cheapest non-iron dressy white boy shirts?
by amother
7 Sun, Mar 17 2024, 6:09 pm View last post
White hand towels get so dirty
by amother
17 Sun, Mar 17 2024, 10:54 am View last post