Wisconsin GOP limits bulk food purchases on food stamps.

Fox

Wed, May 06 2015, 2:38 pm

Barbara wrote:

I've never heard anyone said that, even when I was doing a very substantial amount of pro bono work for people living under the poverty line.

With respect to tuition? Yes. The so-called benefits cliff (which really, really needs to be reformed), yes.

But buying luxuries on food stamps and TANF? In NY, the maximum food stamp allotment for a family of 4 is $649 / month, or $149/week. Are people really eating high off the hog (or should I say brisket) on that? It's less than $2 per person per meal.

There's a 60 month lifetime limit on TANF, and doesn't that require you to work, at least in some states?

ITA 100 percent with Barbara!

With the exception of a very, very small handful of people employing identity theft, etc., no one is living high high on the hog *or* brisket solely through government assistance.

Every time some so-called "welfare queen" is exposed, there's a big hullaballoo and investigation. The result is always the same: hardly anyone uses these programs if they can possibly afford not to, and often the aforementioned benefits cliff makes it impossible for people to make better long-term choices regarding employment.

Under any circumstances, I'm highly uncomfortable with Jews supporting any additional limits whatsoever on the use of SNAP benefits.

I can very easily imagine a scenario in which kosher meat, cheese, or other kosher products are no longer covered -- after all, they are often more expensive, and to non-Jewish lawmakers, could easily be considered "luxuries" compared to the treif alternatives.

MagentaYenta

Wed, May 06 2015, 2:42 pm

leah233 wrote:

I apologize to all who are trying to make ends meet but need food stamps to do so but from the way most of the posters are commenting here you would think the government made some of law about what poor people have to eat.

Haven't you all heard of "beggars can't be choosy"?If you asking other people to pay for your food yes they do have a right to some sort of input.And if they feel that they are encouraging your dependency by being too lenient on what food they will buy for you I guarantee theywon't complain if you stop taking food stamps.

I'd love to dialog with you about my status as a beggar but you'd have to dismount from your high horse.

Barbara

Wed, May 06 2015, 2:51 pm

Squishy wrote:

They get their luxuries because the government pays for their necessities and their cash from their off the book jobs pays for the luxuries.

When your rent, health care, phone, food and utilities are paid by the government, that leaves you with discretionary income.

The is another thread going on now about $200 bows. I go to stores that are crowded selling $80 pants for babies flying off the shelves. These stores are packed before the yom tovim. The customers are not millionaires. I could name 30 people off the top of my head who are on medicaid and their children are dressed from these stores. You can DKLZ any individual you want, but I know most of their stories because there is no shame and no other explanations.

You're referring to people who are committing welfare fraud and tax fraud. They belong in a place where their rent is free and all their meals are paid for, for 3 to 5 years.

OP referred to people who didn't work, on or off the books, and yet she claimed were living very well. Different story.

The Happy Wife

Wed, May 06 2015, 3:06 pm

Barbara wrote:

But buying luxuries on food stamps and TANF? In NY, the maximum food stamp allotment for a family of 4 is $649 / month, or $149/week. Are people really eating high off the hog (or should I say brisket) on that? It's less than $2 per person per meal.

I have a family of 4. My monthly food budget ranges from 300 a month when I'm couponing and planning well, to 500 a month when I don't plan well and buy more prepared foods. $649 a month sounds amazing! Granted, my kids are young, so it's not like I'm feeding two teenage boys with stomachs like bottomless pits.
And I live out of town and keep cholov yisroel, so that is also pricier. I can't imagine how much food I could get if I didn't buy cy, let alone if I didn't have to buy kosher food and buy for Shabbos every week. You bet I would be buying steak on that kind of budget.

Fox

Wed, May 06 2015, 3:09 pm

Squishy wrote:

The is another thread going on now about $200 bows. I go to stores that are crowded selling $80 pants for babies flying off the shelves. These stores are packed before the yom tovim. The customers are not millionaires. I could name 30 people off the top of my head who are on medicaid and their children are dressed from these stores. You can DKLZ any individual you want, but I know most of their stories because there is no shame and no other explanations.

Medicaid is a reflection of an entirely different problem: the broken state of the U.S. health care system.

Linking health care to employment has simply stopped working, and most people with families have few options. Independently-purchased health insurance can easily cost $2000+ per month for a family -- and that's for a very basic plan that excludes a great many common health issues. And good luck finding a plan if you have any pre-existing conditions.

So we have a situation in which many people can't afford insurance or can't purchase it at any cost on the open market, yet it's more expensive for society to have them uninsured than to have them on Medicaid.

While I hardly consider myself an Obama supporter, I give him great credit for being willing to address this issue -- even imperfectly.

Is some kind of quasi-socialized medical care the answer? I honestly don't know. However, I am certain that what we have now is not working -- and it has little to do with people buying $200 bows.

Barbara

Wed, May 06 2015, 3:26 pm

The Happy Wife wrote:

I applaud you, but have no clue how you do it. A box of cereal -- which would last a week or less if everyone ate it every day -- is $6.50. Eggs are $3/dozen, and milk as $4.50/gallon. Coffee $8/pound, if you're lucky.

Of course, if your kids are very small, and eating by the spoonful, its a lot easier. Its more like a family of 2-1/2 than a family of 4.

dimyona

Wed, May 06 2015, 4:14 pm

I guess I'm also an amazing budgeter, because $650 for a family of four sounds quite reasonable. I spend less than half of that now for a family of three. I'm not stingy at all, but I'm conscious of what I purchase and stock up on specials when I see them. I grew up in a family more than twice that size, and our monthly grocery bill was around that amount. We were not poor, and we were never hungry. And this is for kosher and chalav yisrael that's significantly more expensive. I don't think poor people should be punished or forced to scrimp for food, but realistically, the current allocation seems to be fine.

I think these restrictions are ridiculous though. Let people eat whatever tuna they want.

Raisin

Wed, May 06 2015, 4:17 pm

Barbara wrote:

I'm guessing she buys beans, flours etc in bulk, buys fruit and veg in season, limits meat/fish to once or twice a week, seasons everything really well, and makes everything from scratch.

Kind of ironic that she can't do some of those things on food stamps!

33055

Wed, May 06 2015, 6:18 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Seriously do you really think that the savings on my rent from HUD, utilities from Lheap and $16 worth of SNAP a month leave me with discretionary income? Tell me how that works, because I really would like to put $85 into bark dust for my yard but I've just eaten $1K in auto repair expenses this month.

You missed the part about a cash job with income that isn't reported. If all your necessities are paid for then everything you earn can go for luxuries.

nylon

Wed, May 06 2015, 9:00 pm

The government doesn't make up the numbers for SNAP. The USDA has a formula for compiling the Thrifty Food Plan. That is what the USDA considers an adequate, thrifty diet. Some people manage on less, but this is what their formula considers reasonable. They set a diet of so many pounds of meat, vegetables, dairy, etc for each person in set age groups and calculate the average cost (Hawaii and Alaska get separate figures). There are also Low-Cost, Moderate, and Liberal Plans and you can look up all the figures on the USDA website.

Then they calculate your benefits. Roughly speaking, it goes like this: They adjust your gross income for certain expenses (e.g. rent that is over a certain percentage of income, childcare etc). They assume you will spend 30% of that income on food. You will then get SNAP to cover the difference between 30% of income and the Thrifty Food Plan for your family composition.

The plan does NOT assume no one will ever have a treat. People have birthday cakes. They do NOT assume people will eat no meat. But they do assume people will be economical--my own budget is quite a bit higher, because we eat meat regularly.

Fraud on SNAP is remarkably low. When they do discover fraud, it's often retailer fraud.

WIC is different. WIC is designed to 1) mitigate specific nutritional issues in pregnant and nursing women and children and 2) subsidize certain agricultural sectors. Hence all the dairy.

As for Medicaid? MY own son has it due to a disability. Private insurance is designed to push kids like him onto it.

Simple1

Thu, May 07 2015, 10:39 am

I don't know if this is true, but I once heard that social programs are designed to make it unpleasant or difficult for people to go on it because the government can't afford for everyone to be on it. I say this as someone who was once on food stamps. We're at the point of being the struggling middle class, kind of breaking even - but the aggravation they put you through makes it worth it to go off the programs.

LittleDucky

Thu, May 07 2015, 12:54 pm

While I agree with some of it on principle, how they are doing it doesn't make sense. Basically what it am trying to say is that people on FS shouldn't be able to buy luxury items. Alcohol, junk food, fancier foods. However limiting it to a specific type of canned beans doesn't make sense. But albacore tuna and shellfish? Chunk light has virtually the same benefits nutrition wise for half the cost.- that's why I buy it too. I understand needing meat, fish etc and am not advocating banning it from FS but I do get the frustration of people seeing those on FS buying better foods than they can afford when "hey, I am paying for their bill too,"

And I wish I had 649 to spend on a monthly grocery budget. If you spend $5 on a box of cereal you are throwing money in the garbage disposal. Look for sales, use coupons. I aim for 1.50 a box. If you don't keep CY look for signs of "buy 4 boxes, get a gallon of milk"- you can use coupons on top of it too! I shop and tend to pay about only 60% of purchase price. And that includes fresh fruits etc. but I buy the choices that are on sale, I buy smartly and pretty healthily. I don't only buy stuff to make from scratch but I also don't buy freezer meals.
Maybe people need to rethink how they shop.