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Why is this even happening?????
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 11:43 am
Yesterday, I saw four young adults (late high school or shortly after) in black pants, white shirts, and black kippot sitting on the ledge of a light rail platform in Jerusalem with their legs dangling into the path of the train. When the train approached three of them got up right away and one waited a while longer. I did not walk across to talk to find out what language they were speaking.
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Dandelion1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 11:56 am
I find so many of these comments extremely hurtful and saddening.

Sure, let's correct the situation. Let's talk about raising awareness. But where is all this unmitigated anger and blatant disgust toward fellow Jews coming from??

My siblings and I grew up playing on the streets too. Latchkey kids, far from privileged. I was b'h very loved, but at times not fully supervised... single working mother, etc. My siblings and friends and I did dumb things too. Really dumb things.

Food for thought: if this were an article about inner city African American and Hispanic children doing this, and countless comments were posted about "breeding like rabbits", "not reproducing", and calling them things like "idiots," the negative response here would be so immediate, and shaming, and overwhelmingly angry. Posters would be called bigots and all sorts of politically correct reproaches. Come on! You've got to be consistent!
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amother
Violet


 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 12:42 pm
I think the hostility is justified- everyone's just fed up with seeing frum people risk their lives and the lives of others. I'm so tired of the arrogant frum excuses for it.
I've lived in inner city neighborhoods before, and in the yeshivish place I live now, I don't see a big difference in the middos of the children (except for the worse, because of the hypocrisy).
The graffiti, garbage, mischief, and wildness is all the same except worse.
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 12:51 pm
aleph wrote:
I find so many of these comments extremely hurtful and saddening.

Sure, let's correct the situation. Let's talk about raising awareness. But where is all this unmitigated anger and blatant disgust toward fellow Jews coming from??

My siblings and I grew up playing on the streets too. Latchkey kids, far from privileged. I was b'h very loved, but at times not fully supervised... single working mother, etc. My siblings and friends and I did dumb things too. Really dumb things.

Food for thought: if this were an article about inner city African American and Hispanic children doing this, and countless comments were posted about "breeding like rabbits", "not reproducing", and calling them things like "idiots," the negative response here would be so immediate, and shaming, and overwhelmingly angry. Posters would be called bigots and all sorts of politically correct reproaches. Come on! You've got to be consistent!


Did you miss the part where he mentions that there are adults standing right there and not saying a thing?
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observer




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 1:01 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
I'm going to be brave (or stupid), but I'll say this under my screen name.

Anyone else here thinking that some people are having more kids than they can reasonably supervise? Everyone loves to spout off about "precious Yiddishe neshamos", but when it comes to actually parenting, they're too tired to do anything about it because of their 12 kids, all 18 months apart.

There's no mitzvah to breeding like rabbits, if you're just going to feed them to the wolves.


Let's not stereotype here, please. Many many families with many children 18 months apart do supervise their children and give them an enriching childhood. As for the "some", I think it's a mindset. As mentioned, parents were there. It wasnt about having too many kids or being busy making supper. They were there and didnt stop their kids. Seems to me like its just a mindset.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 1:10 pm
I want to apologize for my comment yesterday. I had a migraine, and was extremely cranky. That is no excuse, and I admit it. embarrassed

Furthermore, my snarky comment added nothing beneficial to the discussion, which is supposed to be about keeping our kids alive.

As a matter of fact, two of my dearest friends have 10 kids each, and they are wonderful parents. I have one child, and I admit that I give her a lot of freedom (although I also taught her not to do stupid things.)
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relish




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 1:15 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
I want to apologize for my comment yesterday. I had a migraine, and was extremely cranky. That is no excuse, and I admit it. embarrassed

Furthermore, my snarky comment added nothing beneficial to the discussion, which is supposed to be about keeping our kids alive.

As a matter of fact, two of my dearest friends have 10 kids each, and they are wonderful parents. I have one child, and I admit that I give her a lot of freedom (although I also taught her not to do stupid things.)

That takes courage. I applaud you! Applause Hooray Applause Hooray
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 1:31 pm
Wow FF, that's a really nice comment.

I think there actually is a connection like you were mentioning earlier, but I think it works in the other direction. The less you supervise your kids, the more kids you can have without getting too stressed out.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 1:36 pm
amother wrote:
Another thing: I once took my kids to an indoor play-space located within a mall. The proprietor came over to me and started complaining about the "ultra orthodox" mothers who leave very small children alone while they go shopping in other stores. She said the mothers will write their cell ph. number on a paper and leave it in the kid's pocket. Once, a three year old was crying, and the proprietor called the mother but she was understandably quite upset.

I was tempted to tell her she should've called the police, but I didn't.

Anon bec. I've told this irl

But she really should have called, maybe not the police, but at least mall security. How does complaining to you help??

I'm assuming that first, she put up big signs saying "no leaving children unsupervised," and told parents as they came in that the play area isn't a place to leave children unattended.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 1:44 pm
The way the Lakewood issue is being approached seems ineffective, too. Why do people put so much emphasis on raising awareness, and so little on law enforcement? or changing infrastructure?

Not that raising awareness is bad, but I'm guessing that even if they talk about this issue in every school in Lakewood, there will still be kids wandering around near the train tracks and parents dumb enough to let them. Can't they just put a big fence along the track? And hit drivers who don't respect the "no crossing" marker with a $1,000 fine? That's not a perfect solution either, but at least it doesn't rely on thousands of people learning better behavior out of the goodness of their hearts alone.
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Dandelion1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 2:33 pm
ora_43 wrote:
The way the Lakewood issue is being approached seems ineffective, too. Why do people put so much emphasis on raising awareness, and so little on law enforcement? or changing infrastructure?

Not that raising awareness is bad, but I'm guessing that even if they talk about this issue in every school in Lakewood, there will still be kids wandering around near the train tracks and parents dumb enough to let them. Can't they just put a big fence along the track? And hit drivers who don't respect the "no crossing" marker with a $1,000 fine? That's not a perfect solution either, but at least it doesn't rely on thousands of people learning better behavior out of the goodness of their hearts alone.


Makes complete sense.... It's kind of hard to believe that this hasn't been aggressively addressed by the railroad since the conductor says it's been an ongoing safety concern for him and whoever else is on the train. How has there been no response?
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Dandelion1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 2:36 pm
gp2.0 wrote:
Did you miss the part where he mentions that there are adults standing right there and not saying a thing?


Yes but I think my point still stands. This type of derogatory condemnation would not be tolerated for any other ethnic/racial/religious group.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 2:45 pm
ora_43 wrote:
But she really should have called, maybe not the police, but at least mall security. How does complaining to you help??

I'm assuming that first, she put up big signs saying "no leaving children unsupervised," and told parents as they came in that the play area isn't a place to leave children unattended.


I definitely detected certain anti-Semitic overtones in the way the woman was talking to me, and the whole thing made me so uncomfortable. (She was talking about an event that occurred in the past)

Look, as frum Jews, we do stand out in public--with our large families and different dress. But to me, the worst thing someone looking to find fault with frum people can say, is that we ch"vsh don't value our kids. Sad
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Miri7




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 11 2015, 4:35 pm
With the whole train issue, it sounds like the train comes through town fairly infrequently, like once a week. The conductor should tell the police or train security folks about the problem. So then the police/security could be in place before the train comes through next, warn everyone away from the tracks, and make it known that anyone on the track area would be ticketed going forward. I think that may cause people to change their behavior and get everyone to stay off the tracks and keep their kids off the tracks. It really is a public safety issue.

From this thread and the thread about abuse in schools, it seems that there is a significant number of people within the frum community who see danger and harm differently than I do. This is interesting and strange to me. I can't imagine any of my friends or community members being at all ok with kids playing on train tracks (even with no train coming!) or hitting in schools. People would really freak out.
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