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Childhood Authority Figures and Hashem



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amother
Khaki


 

Post Tue, Jun 16 2015, 12:40 pm
In the second step of the Twelve Steps, we come to know our Higher Power and how we may have distorted our view of Him through the lens of our childhood authority figures' mistreatment or neglect.

We learn to remove the harsh, distant, frightening, or punishing view and see Him as loving, forgiving, steady, supportive, caring, and awe-inspiring. Which He is.

We learn that even when God records our sins, He allows us to erase them and draw closer to Him by making amends. We learn that even when He sends pain, it is not because He wants to hurt us but because He has a bigger goal than we can fathom.

Many people who were raised with love cannot understand why anyone would need to learn this, but more people walk around terrified of or feeling abandoned by God than we think or acknowledge. And that can often be traced to their formative lessons about authority.

Many people get upset when someone goes OTD, writes an expose, and gets torn apart by people blaming his parents, teachers, and community.

I think if a person honestly examines his or her issues and questions with yiddishkeit and finds a path that works for him or her, that doesn't evoke as much outrage as when someone from a messy background full of suffering rejects Hashem and fails to realize that they have emotional issues that resulted in spiritual confusion.

Of course someone with abusive parents or history of molestation will find God scary and distant and want nothing to do with Him. If He allows such cruelty, what do I need Him for in my life? He is not the source of my comfort, He is the source of my pain.

Just like my parents and teachers.

And that's what spurs those debates. Did Deen know how to treat a wife if he never had role models? What sort of view of God and authority did he have growing up? What about Luzer Twerski? Leah Vincent? Deborah Feldman?

There are exceptions, people who go OTD for completely intellectual or other reasons. But I think denying the impact of emotional pain on spiritual choices does a disservice to the larger discussion.
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 17 2015, 2:12 pm
I remember seeing someplace (in a sefer, can't remember where) that this is one of the reasons we humans are born dependent on our parents as opposed to most other living beings who within a few days are self-sufficient. We humans are dependent on our parents for a large percentage of our lives, comparatively speaking. The reason is so that our relationship with our parents should serve as a mashal, a parable, for our relationship with Hashem. Parents naturally love their kids no matter what; so does Hashem. Parents provide for their children's needs; so does Hashem. Children trust in their parents to provide for them; so must we trust in Hashem.

So when parents don't do their job as parents, what does that (subconsciously) teach the child about Hashem? IOW, when the relationship doesn't work in the mashal, how can we expect it to work in the nimshal?

I learned this in reference to chinuch that, as parents, we are obligated to train our children to listen to us and to have hachna'ah because if not, how can we expect them to listen to Hashem Whom they can't see (nor His love and His consequences)?
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 18 2015, 2:13 am
It depends where you come from. As a BT from a dysfunctional family home that had no religion and very little spirituality, I went toward G-d, not away. I needed Someone to hold on to, to turn to.

But I rarely think of G-d as a kind and loving Higher Power. I often relate to Him as critical or disinterested, like my mother. Or giving and attentive until He suddenly and without warning causes trauma to me, like my father. It's so self-defeating to relate to Him like that. I do try to adjust my thinking. Because when I take the time to imagine G-d as kind and loving, I feel safe and hopeful.
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 18 2015, 7:13 am
pause wrote:
I remember seeing someplace (in a sefer, can't remember where) that this is one of the reasons we humans are born dependent on our parents as opposed to most other living beings who within a few days are self-sufficient. We humans are dependent on our parents for a large percentage of our lives, comparatively speaking. The reason is so that our relationship with our parents should serve as a mashal, a parable, for our relationship with Hashem. Parents naturally love their kids no matter what; so does Hashem. Parents provide for their children's needs; so does Hashem. Children trust in their parents to provide for them; so must we trust in Hashem.

So when parents don't do their job as parents, what does that (subconsciously) teach the child about Hashem? IOW, when the relationship doesn't work in the mashal, how can we expect it to work in the nimshal?

I learned this in reference to chinuch that, as parents, we are obligated to train our children to listen to us and to have hachna'ah because if not, how can we expect them to listen to Hashem Whom they can't see (nor His love and His consequences)?


OT fun fact: male elephants stay with their mothers until about age 14. Female elephants stay with their mothers for decades, until they die. I wonder what that says about elephants' relationship with Hashem. Wink
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Thu, Jun 18 2015, 7:32 am
pause wrote:
I remember seeing someplace (in a sefer, can't remember where) that this is one of the reasons we humans are born dependent on our parents as opposed to most other living beings who within a few days are self-sufficient. We humans are dependent on our parents for a large percentage of our lives, comparatively speaking. The reason is so that our relationship with our parents should serve as a mashal, a parable, for our relationship with Hashem. Parents naturally love their kids no matter what; so does Hashem. Parents provide for their children's needs; so does Hashem. Children trust in their parents to provide for them; so must we trust in Hashem.

So when parents don't do their job as parents, what does that (subconsciously) teach the child about Hashem? IOW, when the relationship doesn't work in the mashal, how can we expect it to work in the nimshal?

I learned this in reference to chinuch that, as parents, we are obligated to train our children to listen to us and to have hachna'ah because if not, how can we expect them to listen to Hashem Whom they can't see (nor His love and His consequences)?


The topic needs to be approached from both ends. Thank you pause for bringing the parents' side into the conversation.

Many of us were raised by critical parents, or had negative experiences with authority in our formative years. My post dealt mostly with the need to acknowledge how that impacts our relationship with Hashem, and the need to re-wire our thinking. Chani8 you expressed so clearly why that is important even if we have managed to stay connected to God.

Regarding parenting, there are three difficulties.

One is that the parents that most need to change the way they raise their kids are not so likely to do so. These parents are in dysfunctional marriages or mentally ill, and are crippling their children because they are themselves not healthy enough for self-reflection and growth. (I am obviously not talking about those people with difficulties in their marriage or with their own mental health who do get help.)

The second is that even if we do everything "right", which is virtually impossible, we don't control the other people in our childrens' lives who may impact them negatively.

The third difficulty is that each child perceives reality differently, because of their unique personalities and personal nisyonos, and the approach that worked for one may trigger rebellion in another.

We have to do our utmost to raise our children with love and acceptance - and healthy boundaries as well. But as adults looking back at our childhoods, we need to recognize the fact that parents are human - and by definition imperfect - and it is our choice to repair what was broken so that we can live our lives to the fullest.
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Thu, Jun 18 2015, 7:33 am
Double post
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 18 2015, 9:53 am
gp2.0 wrote:
OT fun fact: male elephants stay with their mothers until about age 14. Female elephants stay with their mothers for decades, until they die. I wonder what that says about elephants' relationship with Hashem. Wink


Speaking of which, so do orcas.

And bonobos are carried around by their moms for the first two years of life.
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Thu, Jun 18 2015, 11:41 am
Very good discussion.

I'm a convert. I grew up in a disfunctional home and it really affects my relationship with Hashem. Like Chani, it's really hard for me to relate to Hashem as loving and caring, though the brief times I am able to do so feel so much better. It's more common for me to think of Hashem as distant and detached from my life, like my dad, or as a controlling being who is just waiting for me to mess up so He can punish me and prove once again how stupid I am, like my mom. It can be difficult for me to understand what a healthy relationship with Hashem should look like, and why everyone isn't walking around terrified of Him.
Despite the fact that I've always bent over backwards to try to make my mother happy, she's never been happy with me and is actually genuinely sad of my personality. It's hard for me to not feel that Hashem thinks the same way about me.

These issues with my family and a few others with the community I grew up in led me to reject that way of life and look for something different, something better. But I still sometimes feel evil for leaving and sometimes have anxiety that Hashem is mad at me for how I have handled things.

So yes, I very much do believe how we are raised colors how we view Hashem. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to completely be rid of my fears of Hashem that were planted by my relationship with my mother. It's a daily struggle sometimes.

I can see how a negative upbringing can lead a person to reject the religion of their youth-it happened to me. Granted it's different as I wasn't raised Orthodox Jewish of course. But I do believe we as parents have an obligation to have care in the way we raise our children, for their sakes, and for the sake of their relationship with Hashem.
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Wed, Mar 09 2016, 9:41 pm
Bumping this one as well.....
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 10 2016, 12:03 am
This is a very readable and fascinating book on the topic. Dr. Rizzutto talks about how our "G-d Concept" is partially instilled by our parents.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Birt.....21027
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