What's a good income OOT?

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amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 7:10 pm

We currently live in Brooklyn and have 8 children. Our total income now is about $130K which does not go very far in NYC.

We are looking to move out of NYC. I have a job interview scheduled in a small town about 3 hours away. Housing is very cheap.

If we move our income will probably go down somewhat, probably in the $100-120K range.

Homeschooling for elementary age children is a possibility if tuition is too high, although we have 4 older children that we'd be paying tuition for regardless.

So, for people living OOT, can you live off $100-120K a year with a large family without being in debt?

miami85

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 7:18 pm

I would imagine that you would be fine. I would imagine that tuition is the main cost. OOT living tends to go down in expense. Tuition might be the biggest expense. I know many large families--that I'm pretty sure are NOT making that $$$ and are making it somehow--but I don't know their books.

amother

Denim

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 8:59 pm

It all depends where. Major cities will cost more (on average) than smaller areas.
LA is OOT but it is the second largest Jewish community in theUSA (outside tri state) and costs more than many other OOT areas.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 9:06 pm

That's not a significant decrease in income, at least in comparison to housing prices from what you are making it sound like, but schools in Brooklyn range in tuition prices greatly, and I have no idea if tuition is comparable in the city you're looking to move to. Food may or may not cost more as well. I think the most important thing to do is see what tuition prices are in that city.

LittleDucky

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 9:11 pm

OOT is not one big happy place. We are multiple happy places of varying sizes. Very Happy

Every place will be different. Give us your ideas on WHICH places in this wide country and we can try to help.

San Francisco is plenty OOT but costs way more than Brooklyn. Cleveland may differ from Chicago which differs from Kansas... Baltimore... Atlanta... San Jose... Houston... Dallas...Las Vegas... San Diego... Boston... Miami... Detroit... South Bend... Denver... Pittsburgh... Philadelphia... Los Angeles... Arizona... D.C... Seattle... Minnesota...

And those are just the first OOT places I thought of. In no particular order.

<gets>

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 9:14 pm

We're looking into Pennsylvania. I don't want to get more specific than that.

amother

Salmon

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 10:51 pm

I live in Baltimore where cost of housing is known to be less than Brooklyn. Sad to say but many people I know here are earning in the 100-120 range and struggling greatly. They are living simple lives. Its the tuition that's doing it.:-(

out-of-towner

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 10:59 pm

amother wrote:

We're looking into Pennsylvania. I don't want to get more specific than that.

You probably need to be more specific if you want help. I don't know, but I imagine that Philly being closer to NY is probably more expensive than say Pittsburgh or Wilkes-Burre.

In general, tuition OOT can be a huge jump, assuming that you are presently sending to more Yeshivish places where tuition is lower, as opposed to some more modern schools where tuition is much higher. Factor in that food will also be a big expense. if you keep C"Y and P"Y it will be significantly more OOT. However, there isn't much take-out in some places, so if you rely on a lot of that you may save money just from cutting that out.

mha3484

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:03 pm

I can only speak for myself but my expenses are lower oot because there is very little social pressure amongst my group of friends. I don't feel pressure to shop at fancy stores, take vacations, drive the most expensive car etc. tuition is always going to be a killer but the rest of my bills are manageable bli ayin hara. Also, a mortgage on a regular not fancy house is also probably 1k cheaper than numbers I see here from ny/nj imas. I think you can definitely stretch your dollars more out of NY.

amother

Tan

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:22 pm

Another poster here from Baltimore: Tuition is much higher here than in NYC in general, and so is the cost of food becasue there is less competition etc. We have figured out that in order to survive , pay full tuition for our 5 kids in school and 1 in daycare, we would need appro $130,000 a year. As it is, we pay nowhere near full tuition, we are eligible for free healthcare for our kids, becuase we are earning closer to $80,000 and really struggling...
good luck

amother

Firebrick

Wed, Jul 01 2015, 12:27 am

amother wrote:

Can I ask how much tuition is in Baltimore? Dh and I are considering moving there. Also, do you mean you'd need an income of 130,000 before or after taxes??

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Jul 01 2015, 9:06 am

In the 9K range

amother

Tan

Wed, Jul 01 2015, 11:14 am

amother wrote:

Can I ask how much tuition is in Baltimore? Dh and I are considering moving there. Also, do you mean you'd need an income of 130,000 before or after taxes??

before taxes.

preschool tuition is in teh 6k range
elementary about 9 -10 k
middle and high school are more than that

nylon

Wed, Jul 01 2015, 12:31 pm

I assume by "small town" you are excluding anywhere in the Philadelphia area and probably Pittsburgh. Your income is likely to be fine but tuition is always tight, so that will be a factor.

Fox

Wed, Jul 01 2015, 12:54 pm

Unfortunately, there's no easy formula to determine which OOT costs will be more and which will be less. There are a million crazy, capricious factors that influence the cost of living in each separate city.

For example, when I was spending a considerable amount of time in Queens, I found food to be cheaper in Chicago. I'm not sure why, though I was told it had to do with meat being shechted in the Midwest making a shorter journey along with produce grown in the West. I was also told by a Queens grocer that "if I were paying Chicago rent, I'd have lower prices, too!"

Clothing costs, OTOH, can escalate quickly OOT. Without a plethora of frum clothing stores, you may find yourself moving slightly up the price ladder to purchase a tznius special occasion outfit. In theory, you can order online, by phone, or buy clothing during trips to NY -- but we know that's not always how it works!

Ultimately, the savings will depend on your OOT lifestyle. If you currently go to a bungalow colony, moving OOT will be a major savings. You can nix the whole summer-in-the-mountains thing and just stay home!

It's true that OOT communities can offer a less-pressured financial life, but not if you choose to associate with everyone who just moved from Brooklyn. OOT communities also have home-grown social climbers, and if you choose to compete, you'll be living in Brooklyn, PA, or Brooklyn, IL, or whatever.

baltomom

Wed, Jul 01 2015, 2:29 pm

Baltimore tuition: for boys, it's $11000 for elementary school, $12K for middle school, and nearly $14K for high school. For girls it's lower: $9000 range in elementary, $10+K in middle school, and over $11K for high school.

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, Jul 01 2015, 10:30 pm

Fox wrote:

we already live a very simple, bare bones lifestyle in Brooklyn. We do most of our clothes shopping online so I don't see that changing much OOT (in any case we'd be living close enough to NYC to make an occasional shopping trip).

We are not social climbers by any means. We don't go to the country in the summer. WE don't own a car which will be a necessity OOT.

The real reason to move is that I'm choking in an 800 sq foot apartment with 8 children.

If tuition will break the budget, we will homeschool.

(LOL I just noticed my amother color is Lawngreen! How apropos. OR maybe the message is that the grass isn't always greener...)

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