Why don't chassidish women fast?

amother

Gold

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 6:07 am

I have a chassidish friend who told me her dayan says women shouldn't fast.

I'm confused. This person is a healthy young woman, not pregnant or after birth. Doesn't have kids. Why shouldn't she fast? Chassidish women in general don't fast? She told me only tisha b'Av and yum Kippur.

Do they think women are so weak they'll collapse?

November

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 6:21 am

You are looking at this through Litvish eyes. It's a different sect with a different minhag. You do your thing and let them do theirs. I actually wish that was my minhag. Smile

amother

Taupe

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 7:15 am

November wrote:

You are looking at this through Litvish eyes. It's a different sect with a different minhag. You do your thing and let them do theirs. I actually wish that was my minhag. Smile

I think that what's puzzling to the Litvaks here is that we understand fasting not as minhag but as halacha. No halachic source before the rise of chassidus exempts women from fasting. It's as though someone were to say that chassidishe women don't observe shatnez because that's not their minhag.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 7:47 am

DrMom wrote:

Why can they fast on Yon Kippur and 9Av and not 17Tammuz?

ETA: I never knew chassidic women didn't fast on these days.

I only fast on Yom Kippur and Tisha bav. I am not chassidish, but I am heimish. Same minhag. Yom Kippur is a D'oreisa so obviously we fast. Tisha bav is a drabanan but a much stricter fast, although it is definitely a lot easier to get a heter. There is no rule that says, they can't fast on other fasts, but most people don't because why would you if you are told you don't need to?

5mom

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 7:52 am

mommy2b2c wrote:

Right, but this doesn't answer the question. Why are you being told you don't need to? I'm sure you observe many d'rabbanans. (Is that a word?) Why did fasting become unnecessary, while using electricity on shabbos is still ossur?

ETA: The fasts are actually on a higher level than most d'rabbanans, because they appear in the navi (and ketuvim, for taanis Esther) and are in the category of divrei sofrim. These are really early and serious mitzvos. So again, how did they end up in the reject pile?

gp2.0

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 8:00 am

AIUI, because the Satmar rebbe said so, and while people ignore pretty much everything else he said, for this one they're happy to jump on the train. Rumor goes he said something along the lines of, "if a woman is pregnant or nursing she shouldn't fast, and if she's not pregnant or nursing she must be ill so she shouldn't fast either." Rolling Eyes

Also, the heimish/chassidish mentality tends to coddle women, mostly in relation to childbirth (in some ways that are beneficial, like encouraging postpartum rest, and in some that are not, like discouraging attendance to your own son's bris)

amother

Chocolate

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 8:05 am

I am litvish, and personally, I think it is extremely difficult for most woman with children to fast, ever. If you have children you are running after them, taking care of the house, cooking for cranky children, probably working as well--this is a job that demands high energy and patience. I am happy that my husband's rav happens to have chassidish leanings and almost always gives me a heter.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 8:12 am

5mom wrote:

I don't know and I can't say I really I care. I am just happy that I don't. Maybe because of mitzvah Asai she hazman grama? If I was really curious, I would ask a rabbi.

5mom

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 8:14 am

I have always found cleaning for Pesach with little children to be difficult. But no one says never mind all the d'rabbanan aspects of Pesach, after all you are pregnant, nursing etc.
Doctors will tell you that just about any woman in good health can fast for a day.
I am really puzzled at the pick-and-choose attitude to halacha, especially given the relative importance of fasting.
I totally understand pregnant and nursing women not fasting, or only fasting half a day. But to make a blanket exception like this for all women is baffling. The line that a woman who isn't pregnant or nursing must be sick is just a line, not a serious response. Anyone?

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 8:19 am

gp2.0 wrote:

Off topic, but why is not attending your sons bris the opposite of beneficial? I would consider it neither beneficial or not beneficial. It just is.

gp2.0

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 8:20 am

mommy2b2c wrote:

Off topic, but why is not attending your sons bris the opposite of beneficial? I would consider it neither beneficial or not beneficial. It just is.

It is robbing you of a valuable life experience for no reason. For me personally it would also increase rather than decrease my anxiety to be separated from my newborn during the bris, so for me it would be detrimental.

Notsobusy

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 8:22 am

My very litvish grandfather (mother's father) believed that women only fast on Yom Kippur and Tisha Baav. My father's family held that women should always fast. So when we were growing up, we girls always fasted, but my mother only fasted YK and Tisha Baav. Turns out my very litvish father in law also believes that women only need to fast YK and Tisha Baav. I always start out fasting, I try to make it to Chatzos, but after that if I'm not feeling well I just break my fast.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 8:25 am

gp2.0 wrote:

I can hear that it would be detrimental for you, but it is definitely not the case for everyone. I personally, disagree with making the woman stay home. I think everyone should do what's best for them. I just think that saying it is detrimental for all women to stay home from their sons' brissim is an over the top statement. Everyone is different.

myself

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 9:25 am

gp2.0, most chassidish women, Satmar or not, don't fast besides for YK and TB so I don't why you're 'blaming' Satmar for this one.

I find it very difficult to fast so rarely fast besides for YK and TB now, however as a girl there was no two ways about it, fasting really made me ill but it was just one of those things that were non-negotiable. My mother fasted too when she wasn't nursing or pregnant.

Regarding attending one's baby's bris - for me it's a non-issue. For starters, so far, I was never well enough to attend my baby's bris. Second, I wouldn't cope with it emotionally. I was kvater a number of times and the crying breaks my heart each time anew.