Why don't chassidish women fast?

shalhevet

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:07 pm

amother wrote:

And why do women get to shave in the three weeks when men don't?

(See the other thread today)

This is a basic fact, that women are not mechuyav in mitzvos eseh shehazman geramah with some obvious exceptions. Some of the exceptions are only so because women accepted them upon themselves and they now have the status of halachah.

I heard some chassiduser don't allow women in the succah. And I never eat the million kezeysim of matzoh and maror on pesach. Etc etc.

I don't know where to start with your post. Women can shave in the 3 weeks because they shave for a different reason(s) to men. It is not a mitzvas aseh shehazman graman anyway.

No one obligates women to eat in the sukka (this is the only correct example of a mitzvas aseh shehazman graman. I also heard Sanz doesn't allow women in the sukka, but I don't know why, and I don't think anyone else has this minhag.

All the mitzvos of the seder equally obligate men and women. I hope you are at least eating one kzayis within 2 or 4 minutes, because that is a Torah mitzva. The other kzeisim are midrabanan, but just as incumbent on women.

5mom

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:10 pm

amother wrote:

And btw to all of you who are preaching against the fact that women don't fast, hold your breath.

No chassidish woman will come online and say, hey my Dayan said I shouldn't fast but some anonymous woman on imamother said that its crazy if I don't, so I better fast!

Go find something better to do:)

Easy fast to all of you!

I don't think for a second that someone is going to change what she's doing because of a crabby cranky fasting woman on imamother. (Self awareness keeps me sane!)
But if she asks around and comes back with an answer, I could learn something. Or maybe next time she is tempted to judge someone else, she will remember that other people saw a behavior that looks like it's against halacha and the world didn't come to an end.

myself

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:12 pm

shalhevet wrote:

Are Litvish women stronger? I barely heard of a bris that a Litvish mother "wasn't well enough" to attend. No one expects you to look like you just stepped out of a magazine (although maybe that's the problem here). What about the baby who "isn't well" too just after his bris and appreciates his mother's arms and nursing?

And good if you cry. Use it for tefillos for the baby - that he grow to be a talmid chacham and yarei shamayim. Use it for Am Yisroel. When the baby cries, the heavens are open for our tefillos.

Well, judgemental much? When I say I wasn't well enough I mean it. If you want you can pm me.

And just so you know, in my part of the world many litvish mothers don't attend the bris either.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:16 pm

Sanguine wrote:

It's a Chassidish requirement to pierce your baby's ears? Learn something new Very Happy

. For the life of me I can never understand why mothers find it necessary to pierce their baby's ears. My babies were all so adorable and yummy they never needed jewelry or make-up either. It's fun to dress them up in ruffles and stuff, but earrings I never understood cause they're just as perfect in only a diaper. I guess ear-piercing is a Chumra. Why else would you hurt your child? Why would you make an infant dress like a grown-up? It's for the Shidduch?

Tangent time: Not chassidish but know lots of young women who've had their babies' ears piereced (including mothers of my granddaughters Wink

). They think it's cute. They're happy to have their otherwise gorgeous but bald baby identified as a girl. They're willing to deal with the hassle. At least I think those are their reasons Tongue Out

Mevater

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:20 pm

I find it interesting that there are so many differences between different Chassidic groups, and yet according to what Im reading here, they all agree that women shouldnt fast?

I bet there are some Chassidic groups whose women DO fast. Anyone know which Chassidus' women do fast?

sweetpotato

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:20 pm

Why does it always seem that on days that we are meant to be mourning the destruction of the Beis haMikdash and our galus, we davka start threads to bash other Jews?

A gringe taanis.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:28 pm

shalhevet wrote:

Good for you if you cry? Mind your own business. Let everyone decide for themselves if they want to cry. While I did go to one of my sons brissim, for the other one, I wasnt well enough to stand. Im really happy for you that you have such easy post partem recoveries. The intolerance on this site never ceases to amaze me.

kitov

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:38 pm

amother wrote:

I am litvish, and personally, I think it is extremely difficult for most woman with children to fast, ever. If you have children you are running after them, taking care of the house, cooking for cranky children, probably working as well--this is a job that demands high energy and patience. I am happy that my husband's rav happens to have chassidish leanings and almost always gives me a heter.

We are chassidish. We are instructed not to fast but not to announce it or eat in public or in the kids' presence.

My dh says your assumption is probably the right reason. thoug he never tried finding out the halachik reasoning for our exemption. He is such happy that I dont have to fast nd can manage the kids alright.

Oh, and I attend my boys' brissin WHEN I feel up to it. I wouldnt miss it for the life of mine but sometimes childbirth takes the better of me.

a jewish woman

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:38 pm

mommy2b2c wrote:

Basically, all your post proves is that people will bash chassidim no matter what they do.

How is it bashing? I am chasidish and that is the reality of life that I and other chasidishe women are not coddled. I'm sorry that you cannot handle the truth about the lifestyle of my community but I have every right to discuss it without being accused of bashing it. If I can't talk about it then how can we possibly change anything? (And yes, lots of us want change but don't know how to go about it without being accused of bashing or being otd etc.)

Isramom8

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:43 pm

Just guessing here, might not having to fast and not attending a son's bris have to do with specific health issues that can weaken a lot of girls and women? Sure, lots of girls have no problem fasting and having their period at the same time, but others find that debilitating. Lots of women are strong after birth but many are weak.

Maybe this Chassidishe minhag (if and when it actually exists) allows women not to compete in the girl power department. Maybe it just says it's okay to respect biology that happens to you, and you don't have to prove anything with bravado.

And it honors women's privacy by making a blanket exemption, so that a girl doesn't have to announce her period and a postpartum mother doesn't have to second-guess her strength.

Is this a valid reality or did I totally make this up? Wink

a jewish woman

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:44 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

That's life. Full of contradictions.

It would be so much easier if there were blanket statements for everything. But there aren't.

It can be a challenge to imagine people complexly. Everyone loves an easy answer. Often there isn't one.

FWIW most of the chassidishe women I know have cleaning help. Many have weekly help, some arrange for twice or thrice weekly.

Many people see these contradictions as hypocrisy (as in what's really halacha and what is made up "halacha" used to control women) and more and more are leaving the fold each day.

observer

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 12:53 pm

On the Bris topic, I find it very sad when the baby doesn't have his mommy there to cuddle or console or nurse him right after. Sure it may be hard for the mother to hear her baby cry, but for that she would intentionally not be there for her baby when he needs her most? Isn't motherhood all about putting our children's needs before our own?

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 1:00 pm

amother wrote:

This heter goes way back before the satmar rebbe.

Most chassidus like tzanz, bobov, klausenburg, spink, and many others have it in their mesorah from way back not to allow women to fast.

There are some chassidus that do require the women to fast btw. It's not a rule across the board.

I grew up chassidish and we were required to fast...

Now I'm so grateful that I don't have to fast. It's impossible when running after the kids in the heat.

NO, NO, NO. Please don't say it wasnt the satmar rebbe's idea. It is classic imamother to blame everything on him. Dont diffuse that myth here with reliable sources. Just dont.

sweetpotato

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 1:03 pm

observer wrote:

I find it very sad when other women look down upon postpartum mothers for what they do or don't do!

(And for the record, sometimes "putting our children's needs before our own" means we must ensure we are strong and well enough to care for them, whatever that takes. No mother should be made to feel guilty because she wasn't strong enough to go to a bris.)

Really, I'm not trying to be preachy, but *why* are we having this discussion? What is it contributing or accomplishing?

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 1:07 pm

a jewish woman wrote:

Many people see these contradictions as hypocrisy (as in what's really halacha and what is made up "halacha" used to control women) and more and more are leaving the fold each day.

Not obligated to fast, not customary to attend son's bris, having a clean lady, all lead to leaving the fold? Next one will say six-slice kaplech make one be mechalel shabbos.

Carmen Luna

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 1:13 pm

The minhag that Chasidishe women dont fast originates from the notion that a woman's primary role is to be a mother, and in order to function better, it was paskened that women shouldn't fast. That, and obviously because most chasidishe women are either pregnant or nursing, so...

a jewish woman

Sun, Jul 05 2015, 1:15 pm

amother wrote:

Not obligated to fast, not customary to attend son's bris, having a clean lady, all lead to leaving the fold? Next one will say six-slice kaplech make one be mechalel shabbos.

Read my original post (about wb bus and women schlepping around while pregnant etc), you'll understand it better.