"Women must never speak to rabbis" - ?

octopus

Fri, Jul 24 2015, 2:49 pm

amother wrote:

This culture was created whe we became a nation. Moshe rabbenu couldn't cope with allthe questions and advice people wanted fromhim that he needed his FIL yisro idea of taking on "hellpers".
This "culture" is part of who we are. It is called. Emunas chachomim which is part and parcel of Torah and mesorah. There is a reason there are rabbonim. And it's not only for them to aswer our nidda, kashrus and fastin sheilos.
My father is a Rov (chassidish Satmar) and he talks to women in things of halacha as well as advice and knows when things needa professionals ooutlook and will refer to one. But I know whha it means a Rov dedication and yiras shamayim and above all SIYATA DISHMAYA
THIS is our culture
People have no clue how vital it is to stick to this "culture" in order to preserve true Torahdig life leshem shamayim
I apologie if I sound sarcastic
I just get upset how this sentiment is mentioned here so often - "we don't need Rabbis to advise us in all matters in life"
I am very open minded and way more modern than my family and very learned for awoman in my circles and my husband is a big talmid chochom. And yet I know that none if compares to the VAST amount of chochma in halacha, hashkofa and common sense from decades of a rav pouring over the holiest and deepest books this world ever had.
I am proud of this culture. It is called yiddishkeit

Wow I have never been this sharp.
Anonymous because of personal info.

ETA: it reminds me of a story. in the times of the austro-hungarian empire the emperor franz joseph appointed a jewish community council as an umbrella over all jewish communities, they were orthodox. the reform "neolog" community wanted to petition for a seperate council in order to go according to their "culture". so they were invited for an audience by the empreror where they said "orthodox life is so stifling. they have a law for every little movement." when the emperor asked for an example they replied "they even say a blessing after going to the toilet!" thinking it will appal the emperor and convince him. instead he said: "a religion that looks out for every movement of a person and shows G-d appreciation for even going to the toilet. THIS is a religion." and he denied their petition.

THIS my ladies is our culture!

If I get attacked and dont reply, it is only because it is almost Shabbos here.

I'm a Rav's daughter, too. But I'm litvish. Your mentality is a very chassidishe mentality. Meaning, asking the rebbe for every little question (not shaila oriented, rather eitza oriented even if it is for something small) My mentality is very litvish. You ask the rav halacha shailos. You only go for an eitza if it really is something "big" but even then- an eitza is an eitza. It's not a psak halacha.Therefore you don't have to listen blindly to the answer for an eitza. Please don't say that what you do in your community is "our culture." That's simply not true. Moshe Rabeinu set up all those zekainim to help him pasken halacha shailos. Please don't compare litvish "culture" (whatever you want to call it!)to the reform movement! How insulting! My father (a rav) does not counsel people. He has no problem saying that this is beyond his scope and will recommend going to a therapist. Some ppl use "having a rav" as an excuse not to use their own sechel and think for themselves. of course there is a time and place to ask a rav's advice, but not for every silly little thing. The biggest segula is to follow Hashem's mitzvos and follow halacha!

pause

Fri, Jul 24 2015, 4:22 pm

octopus wrote:

Whoa! Calm your livers! Where did amother mention litvish? What you call asking an eitza is what she called emunas chachamim. To believe that they have what it takes to give an eitza, that is called emunas chachamim.

You are being overly defensive.

etky

Mon, Jul 27 2015, 2:14 am

I think that as the adage says, power corrupts. Rabbis who dispense advice -especially the type that travels well beyond halachic guidance certainly wield power over people and their lives and tend to receive a certain degree of attendant adulation from both genders. I think it must be a struggle for anyone in that type of position to avoid a distorted sense of self-worth and entitlement. So in that sense, a popular rabbi, like any powerful person, is more exposed to a 'yetzer hara' than ordinary people. It is the position, not necessarily the man that predisposes to temptation. I don't accept that the same qualities that engender greatness in a rabbi lead inescapably to a greater yetzer hara - we might expect that of a charismatic politician or powerful business man but not of someone who is truly great in Torah (as opposed to a charlatan of which there seem to be no lack).
R' Arush's remark smacks of apologetics in the wake of a rash of incidents of s-xual exploitation involving prominent religious personalities.

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Jul 27 2015, 6:37 am

I am thankful I grew up in a generation with Rabbanim like Rav Moshe Feinstein, Rav Yaakov Kamenietzky, Rav Pam. Yiras Shamayim and appropriate boundaries are the tools one needs to treat all people with dignity.

If someone feels their Yeter Harah is so great then they should not be Madrich people. A Rav is not a counselor that he should be spending tremendous amount of time (the time it takes to develop such feelings) with individuals. How many hours of time does someone needs to be given to get an eitzah?

"Rav X, should I take the job in Yehuputzville?

Mr Z, why are you interested in the job? What are the pros and cons? What type of community is it?

Mr Z answers Rav X and Rav X answers Mr Z based on his knowledge of MR Z and his family. He might say I need to think about this and I will get back to you.

liora25

Mon, Jul 27 2015, 9:05 am

I just think that sometimes women do need the advice of a rabbi, but I do agree it can spiral out of control.
But that's why there are laws of yichud which all rabbis shld apply when they meet women
I.e always open door or window in the office
I once heard a none Jewish professor on the radio say, that when students come and talk to him he always leaves the door a little open, and he talks very loudly so anyone walking past would be able to hear what was going on.
I just thought that was amazing, listening to him, he didn't even realise it, but he was practicing laws of yichud, he obviously had insight into the nature of human beings , especially nowadays, the stories just seem more and more frequent ... Unfortunately

etky

Mon, Jul 27 2015, 10:03 am

liora25 wrote:

Sound like these may have been measures to prevent potential charges of molestation against the backdrop of s-xually abusive behavior being an issue in academia.

amother

Peach

Mon, Jul 27 2015, 8:26 pm

liora25 wrote:

thats just calld commons sense unfortunetely in todays days its a real fear that somone will make up a story abt him or for revenge or because the person is mentally ill. if the rabbi is saying to meet w. a woman in order to protect h/s from false accussations then I would admire the rabbi but if he's sayiing this only because he actually needs the pretection from the other person then he is sick.

pause

Mon, Jul 27 2015, 8:55 pm

Octopus:
Perhaps your reality is different than your post.

This is what I understood from your post:
Your culture and her culture are the same. She's calling it one thing, and you're calling it something else. I don't see how her actions and beliefs contradict your actions and beliefs - - - except for the fact that she happened to mention that she is chassidish, while you are clearly not because you blew your top at her without explaining how your "asking for an eitza" is different than her

Quote:

"culture" ... of . . . Emunas chachomim which is part and parcel of Torah and mesorah. There is a reason there are rabbonim. And it's not only for them to aswer our nidda, kashrus and fastin sheilos. . . a Rav talks to women in things of halacha as well as advice

You also dissed her for listening blindly to a rav, asking for every silly thing, and for taking an eitza as psak halacha. She did not say a single one of these things in her post. And yet, you exploded at her.

So yes, I'm left scratching my head as to why...

octopus

Mon, Jul 27 2015, 11:18 pm

pause wrote:

Quote:

I don't know why you are using adjectives like"exploding," "dissing," and phrases like "calm your livers' (which btw- that was a first -I have never been told that one before!) I certainly didn't write my posts with any angry feelings involved. I just try to say it like it is. Look, we can agree to disagree, and I think Etky's post is just awesome and truthful. And it connects to what I said originally about creating a culture that gives so much power to one person (rebbie/rav/mashgiach, etc. whatever you want to call it). Of course there is a concept of emunas chachamim- isn't their achrei rabim l'hatos? I think emunas chachamim ties into that. But there was always a sense of checks and balances in the ancient torah world. The king was in charge, but the navi was always there to give him mussar.But the king was still the king. It is a very dangerous thing when one individual wields so much power- just as etky said so beautifully in her post.

pause

Tue, Jul 28 2015, 5:47 pm

octopus wrote:

I don't disagree with you - at all, but I don't see how or where you answered my question.

Then again, I'm not surprised because you did the same thing to amother. You claim to say things as they are, but generally it is assumed that when you quote a post in your own post, that your post will contain a response or an elaboration on that point, not create its own new topic. So your discourse above on kings and nevi'im is beautiful but irrelevant.

You did seem very agitated against amother for thinking that you proscribe to her "culture". You made assumptions on her post (which I already delineated in my previous post) and responded to those assumptions. That tends to happen when someone is agitated.

In any case, we can definitely agree to disagree about derachim, but that's got zilch to do with my post. I was not defending the amother's derech. I was defending her right to say things and not get responded to by things she did not say. That's all.