Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Relationships -> Guests
"need" a place for Shabbos/meals?
Previous  1  2  3  4  5  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
Wine


 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 7:02 am
How ironic. I've posted in the past about the opposite situation. When I was single it used to urk me when someone said "if you ever need a meal you can come to us." It made me feel (even more) pathetic. I emplore anyone who is inviting a single person to say "we would love to have you".

And about needing a Shabbos meal versus being mature enough to prepare your own....
Please consider that some single people spend weekday meals in an all too quiet apartment. Being alone for Shabbos or yom tov can be a stark reminder that every meal and evry milestone is a lonely one.
Back to top

mille




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 7:30 am
This also really depends on the culture of the community you live.

As a solid example, Washington Heights. I have never lived there, but have many friends who have either single or married, and I've spent a few shabbat weekends there.

It's just part of the culture to have meals together. And big meals. And invite people last minute. And everyone makes a dish, so no one is stuck with the burden (which is why there's no expectation that asking for a meal invite = someone else cooking and cleaning entirely, because everyone cooks). And if you didn't get any invites, to call your friend on friday and see if they just want to pool whatever each of you made for lunch. It's not *unusual* to have a meal by yourself, but it's definitely more usual to spend meals with others.

Some of this translates to married life also. I see some Heights folks get married and move to my community, and they have an adjustment period when they realize that in married suburban MO land, people definitely DO invite to meals, but the meals are smaller, less collaborative, and plenty of times people choose to stay home alone with their spouse. I've had a few times where said folks ask me what I'm doing for shabbat, and they are bewildered when I say we're home for both meals, and no thanks, we don't really want to potluck dinner this week. I mean, this isn't a criticism, it's just different, and they all do adjust Tongue Out

OP's post immediately made me think of my single friends in the heights posting on facebook about meal invites. That's why I bring in the above example! For this type of community, I don't think it's entitlement at all, I think it's just the culture. But obviously, I have no clue about other types of communities and how they work.
Back to top

Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 8:56 am
amother wrote:
thanks for the offer, but nobody deserves a medal just for fulfilling the basic expectations of a job. the problem is that OP's friends aren't fulfilling the basic expectations of adulthood. being able to make Shabbos yourself is one of them.

See, OP emphasized that these people claim to "need" Shabbos meals. There are people who really do need meals. Out of towners staying in a hotel in the business district with no facilities for making Shabbos, for example. But it's kind of nervy to claim to "need" meals when what they mean is they want meals. But maybe that's also a symptom of immaturity, being unable to tell the difference between needs and wants.


I'm not sure why a person such as this is more deserving of a shabbos meal then a lonely single person. or a lonely couple who just moved into town and has no friends. After all, they can (probably) go to the deli and buy cooked food. Why do they need a hot meal? They "want" a hot shabbos meal and probably the company too. Sitting alone and eating a shabbos meal is not fun for many people (although it actually sounds pretty blissful to me Smile ) whether someone is travelling or single.

FTR I am happy to host any one who wants a meal should you find yourself in my neck of the wood.
Back to top

amother
Ivory


 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 9:05 am
I have a nunber of singles who have a standing invite to the extent that I ask them to call and inform me if they are NOT coming for shabbos a particular week - otherwise I set a place for them automatically.

What I dont get is the marrieds and families who post on fb "anyone want us for shabbos this week"? I know its possible that its a hard week for that family and maybe cash is too short to make shabbos. Fine. I have made bologna shabbos before... I get it. But I know a number of people who post this all the time. One of whom posted literally this week asking for an invite for her family of 6, which she does often. One person commented "didnt you post earlier that you are having 20 guests for shabbos lunch this week"? And she replied that no, thats next week. This particular person has invited her family to me many times and has asked us once to come to her. However, this is something Ive seen often on fb - familys asking for invites. Big familys. Once, we got a call erev shabbos from a family of 7 that they had plans to go out for lunch but it was cancelled and the wife doesnt feel like cooking. Can they come to us? At what point is it chutzpa?

When I was divorced with a child, I didn't like being alone and I didnt feel that I should be inviting myself.... I invited others, almost weekly!! Of course there was almost no money, I made as simple as it could get. So Ive btdt.

Anon because I know the fb poster is on here and I dont want her to know who I am.
Back to top

water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 9:27 am
My first thought on this was that this is likely in part about introversion vs extroversion. I think as much as we introverts can feel misunderstood by the extroverted majority, we have to understand that for many of them it can be very anxiety-inducing to think of spending Shabbat or a chag alone.

In addition, as Mille said, it's definitely about culture. I never lived in New York as an adult, but I did spend a few years within walking distance of the Katamon "bitzah" (=swamp, I.e. the neighborhood many singles go in hopes of coming out with a spouse but mostly get stuck in for several years or more). If you try to plan a smallish meal there- say on Tuesday, you were counting on feeding 5 people- by Friday afternoon, you may be up to 17. I don't think it's "entitled" to feel overwhelmed by the thought of squishing a dozen or two people into your apartment, including the logistics of finding enough chairs and tables, while knowing that half of those last-minute add-ons will bring either nothing or the wrong thing.*

I don't really have a solution to this problem- I think it's largely self-sustaining. Large meals are overwhelming to host, so a disproportionately small number of people even look to host more than one friend at a time, so there aren't enough medium-sized meals to go around, so those who "need" a meal to join more eagerly grab on to any meal they can get invited to, so the large meals stay the norm. The people who do host them either seem to genuinely enjoy the chaos or get burned out and stop hosting or move out of the area.


*At most of the meals of that size, either you end up with about 5 bottles of juice/soda/water, or 20 bottles but not enough food to go around. I have serious admiration for those with the planning skills to pull off such a meal with enough food and drink, or who've managed to arrange the tables such that the kitchen is accessible enough to refill water bottles fro the tap.
Back to top

amother
Natural


 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 9:33 am
amother wrote:
I have a nunber of singles who have a standing invite to the extent that I ask them to call and inform me if they are NOT coming for shabbos a particular week - otherwise I set a place for them automatically.

What I dont get is the marrieds and families who post on fb "anyone want us for shabbos this week"? I know its possible that its a hard week for that family and maybe cash is too short to make shabbos. Fine. I have made bologna shabbos before... I get it. But I know a number of people who post this all the time. One of whom posted literally this week asking for an invite for her family of 6, which she does often. One person commented "didnt you post earlier that you are having 20 guests for shabbos lunch this week"? And she replied that no, thats next week. This particular person has invited her family to me many times and has asked us once to come to her. However, this is something Ive seen often on fb - familys asking for invites. Big familys. Once, we got a call erev shabbos from a family of 7 that they had plans to go out for lunch but it was cancelled and the wife doesnt feel like cooking. Can they come to us? At what point is it chutzpa?

When I was divorced with a child, I didn't like being alone and I didnt feel that I should be inviting myself.... I invited others, almost weekly!! Of course there was almost no money, I made as simple as it could get. So Ive btdt.

Anon because I know the fb poster is on here and I dont want her to know who I am.


Reminds me of a young married woman (young but already with 2 kids) who would constantly call us and ask to come for shabbos. Not for a meal only but to come stay a whole shabbos with us. At some point I asked her why she wants to go away so much for shabbos when it's such a hassle packing up a family. She told me that nobody in her community invites her for meals and that it's boring just them each shabbos. So I asked her if she ever invited people to her for a meal and the reply was: "No. It's a lot of trouble to go to." I never had them over for a shabbos again after that. It really bothered me very deeply that it was so much trouble for her to invite even one guest to her home for a meal but she had no problem troubling us with her whole family for the entire shabbos. Some people really do have chutzpah!
Back to top

amother
Magenta


 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 11:14 am
amother wrote:
Reminds me of a young married woman (young but already with 2 kids) who would constantly call us and ask to come for shabbos. Not for a meal only but to come stay a whole shabbos with us. At some point I asked her why she wants to go away so much for shabbos when it's such a hassle packing up a family. She told me that nobody in her community invites her for meals and that it's boring just them each shabbos. So I asked her if she ever invited people to her for a meal and the reply was: "No. It's a lot of trouble to go to." I never had them over for a shabbos again after that. It really bothered me very deeply that it was so much trouble for her to invite even one guest to her home for a meal but she had no problem troubling us with her whole family for the entire shabbos. Some people really do have chutzpah!


And this is exactly why I have issues with people who invite themselves at times. Not singles, because I was an "older" single and I totally understand wanting to share Shabbos with others and not be alone (though when I was single, I made meals and invited others plenty of times). But I do have an issue with married people who invite themselves to me because they don't want to go to the trouble of cooking. Umm, but it's ok to ask me to do it for you?? And never, ever reciprocate? I do juggle a full-time job, two little kids and now, I'm cooking Shabbos for you (and of course, it's always people who have MAJOR food issues to work around). Oh, and then the ones who invite extra people also...Sigh. I really try to be dan l'chaf zechus and decide that some people just can't handle dealing with stuff and think I can (which I usually can) and it's their problem, not mine. But sometimes it's difficult.
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 11:22 am
amother wrote:
I do understand that being alone for Shabbos can be depressing, what is making me ask is that it seems that arranging not to be alone is just as depressing. I realize the lonesomeness is nothing like seminary, but I'm imagining that what worked for me in seminary might apply here - I.e. arrange Shabbos out as much as possible, and when you get burned out from doing that take a break. Also, they generally don't seem to be talking about being alone all Shabbos, just for one meal at a time (based on facebook posts like "eating Shabbos night in Katamon, anyone near there can have me for lunch?")

But no I haven't been in that situation, which is why I'm asking.
Which is very apparent by the fact that you are asking this question Wink
I lived in the Jerusalem single scene for two years before I met my husband. It was not fun to not have a place for meals. Who wants to eat by themselves on shabbat? Shabbat, growing up, was all about family. And so being single, while most definitely not the end of the world at all, still makes people feel slightly lonely on shabbat. I know that I never stayed home for shabbat, ever. I went to families that I knew or other singles that I knew that lived together and would sleep over there. I rarely stayed home unless I knew that I had meals taken care of. I wanted to be in a family setting on shabbat.
To me having a shabbat meal alone was not even in my thoughts ever. Who wants to have a shabbat meal all alone? I never did that. And for some, it very well feel like the end of the world to do that.
Back to top

amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 11:29 am
Truth: shabbos is not meant to be kept alone. Spending many shabbosim, especially in the summer, alone will eventually become a huge nisayon to not be michallel shabbos.
Back to top

watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 11:30 am
amother wrote:
And this is exactly why I have issues with people who invite themselves at times. Not singles, because I was an "older" single and I totally understand wanting to share Shabbos with others and not be alone (though when I was single, I made meals and invited others plenty of times). But I do have an issue with married people who invite themselves to me because they don't want to go to the trouble of cooking. Umm, but it's ok to ask me to do it for you?? And never, ever reciprocate? I do juggle a full-time job, two little kids and now, I'm cooking Shabbos for you (and of course, it's always people who have MAJOR food issues to work around). Oh, and then the ones who invite extra people also...Sigh. I really try to be dan l'chaf zechus and decide that some people just can't handle dealing with stuff and think I can (which I usually can) and it's their problem, not mine. But sometimes it's difficult.


I agree - but I think part or all of the reason that people think they cant incite others is because shabbos meals when guests are invited are so fancy and elaborate, people feel maybe embarassed of lack of skill or funds to create meals that are "good enough". After over a year of one neighbor coming to me as a guest with her family told me that she cant (she used the word cant) have guests because she cant cook well. Hello - I invite you because I want to be with you - not for fancy shmancy. I cook very simply - VERY simple. Chicken and kugel and salad. BH it usually comes out well. Another friend (not the neighbor, closer friend with 3 wild kids) often invites her family. I love her! Im happy to host. She never invites me back and her husband told my husband its because she thinks my chicken is so amazing (hello - bottled bbq sauce over legs - the end) and she cant compete. Its not a competition! But reciprocate. Embarrassed of your cooking skills? In order to reciprocate just this one time maybe get a little bit of takeout. But reciprocate! My Shabbos invites have stopped, and now I only have this particular friend when she asks to come. It gets frustrating to always host.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 11:33 am
Frumdoc wrote:
I spent a year where I had to go out or stay in my (free but gross) hospital accommodation where I had a room that barely held a small Israeli sized single bed and a desk.

No cooking facilities (shared with 20 other students, all non jewish with a penchant for bacon), no living room that wasn't dominated by a large TV. Couldn't even light shabbos candles due to the fire regulations. I lived on cereal and fruit during the week as I couldn't cook anything at all.

That was horrible, and I hustled to get away for shabbos, even if it was to friends with student houses who were slightly more shomrei shabbat.

Maybe some of these people are in difficult shares with less accomodating people who won't allow a shabbos meal to ruin their chill out day. Maybe for some of these people shabbat is the only time they get to socialise and they choose to do it this way. Maybe it is a habit, maybe it is an assumption.

When I lived in katamon, I did about 50/50 meals at home or potluck with other singles and meals at families, but they were generally families I knew, I was never comfortable with the find a stranger to eat at concept. Most of my friends were similar, but some were like this.

My friends who are still single and live there would cry with laughter if you suggested they should stop hosting and go to some random stranger to eat with, but they are older - late 30s.

Maybe it is a younger phase people grow out of?

Of course someone in an extreme situation like this can certainly use an invite, because it is very depressing to spend shabbat holed up in a cell-like room with no food. I was speaking more of people living on their own with cooking facilities and/or single friends with cooking facilities.
Back to top

mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 11:38 am
Honestly, for a lot of reasons its very hard for me to host so we eat at home every shabbos and yomtov with few exceptions. On yomtov we might go to our rav and maybe one or two close friends who understand my challenges otherwise we stay home. The thought of inviting myself out and not reciprocating makes me feel awful. Instead, I look for socialization on shabbos in other ways such as a shiur or taking my walking child to the park. Meals are really hard with little kids why does that have to be the main way we socialize?
Back to top

suzyq




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 11:59 am
watergirl wrote:
I agree - but I think part or all of the reason that people think they cant incite others is because shabbos meals when guests are invited are so fancy and elaborate, people feel maybe embarassed of lack of skill or funds to create meals that are "good enough". After over a year of one neighbor coming to me as a guest with her family told me that she cant (she used the word cant) have guests because she cant cook well. Hello - I invite you because I want to be with you - not for fancy shmancy. I cook very simply - VERY simple. Chicken and kugel and salad. BH it usually comes out well. Another friend (not the neighbor, closer friend with 3 wild kids) often invites her family. I love her! Im happy to host. She never invites me back and her husband told my husband its because she thinks my chicken is so amazing (hello - bottled bbq sauce over legs - the end) and she cant compete. Its not a competition! But reciprocate. Embarrassed of your cooking skills? In order to reciprocate just this one time maybe get a little bit of takeout. But reciprocate! My Shabbos invites have stopped, and now I only have this particular friend when she asks to come. It gets frustrating to always host.


I've gotten this also and I always think it's so funny because if a dish calls for more than one pot or one bowl that's going to get dirty, or more than 5 minutes prep, I'm not making it. But somehow, people think I'm a fancy cook...
Back to top

watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 12:39 pm
suzyq wrote:
I've gotten this also and I always think it's so funny because if a dish calls for more than one pot or one bowl that's going to get dirty, or more than 5 minutes prep, I'm not making it. But somehow, people think I'm a fancy cook...

Its because people get so caught up in patchkying and making fancy shmancy that the food gets ruined.
Back to top

simchat




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 12:49 pm
I didn`t read the whole thread, so my point of view might already have been mentioned, but as a single, I lived in Isreal for a couple of months with a roommate. Well one day my friend bailed on me and for a few weeks I did shabbos alone. In the beginning I was happy to have my space, eat what I wanted etc. But trust me, if you`re eating alone, it means being alone all night after and then all morning and then another solitary meal followed by a whole afternoon of just me and my book. I didn`t know anyone in the area at all and am not a shul-goer and it was cold out. By the end of that first shabbos, I wanted to throw my book out the window and howl at the moon, I was so restless.

Just a point to ponder - If someone living alone has no company for meals to break up the day, a whole shabbos with nothing to do other than read and maybe go for a walk, can be excruciatingly boring.


Last edited by simchat on Fri, Jul 31 2015, 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 12:56 pm
Decades and decades ago, in the secular world, mothers often advised their daughters not to eagerly accept a boy's first offer of a date. "Don't be too available!" they would caution.

That kind of manipulation is a little over-the-top by today's standards, but like many old practices, there's a kernel of truth in it: when something is difficult to obtain, we value it more.

And that's the mistake being made by these FB invitation-seekers. By publicly trawling for invitations, they make themselves look like opportunities to do mitzvahs -- not like desirable guests who are so popular they need to be booked weeks in advance.

Yes, perhaps we should be more enthusiastic about the mitzvah of hachnoses orchim than about the entertainment value of our guests, but popular guests try hard not to improve our middos through hardship.

Creating the persona of a lonely single person or an overwhelmed, bored mom -- whether online or IRL -- is a mistake. Most of us have been in the situation of "needing" an invitation for one reason or another and have prevailed on a close friend or easygoing host. That's not the problem; the problem is the kind of public neediness that makes hosts feel sorry for you rather than want you for your own sterling qualities.

I've also noticed that public neediness doesn't work very well when it comes to attracting potential spouses or new friends.
Back to top

anotherima




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 1:33 pm
What I don't understand is the "need" of the OP to understand the plight of someone who is stressed about finding a place for shabbos. What do you care? You are not hosting them anyway. Delete or go troll a different fb page.
Back to top

amother
Pearl


 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 2:07 pm
Being alone for an entire shabbos with no distractions besides reading can be painfully lonely for all but the most introverted. As an older single living at home but needing to make my own accommodations for 5 or 6 weeks a year I definitely invited people bit they didn't want to come. Said something about their kids needing friends and stuff. I'd get invitations but being as most of my friends were married and no longer local it was mostly my married siblings who lived several hours away and I worked so wouldn't be able to get there. It was definitely hard. I'd sometimes self medicate to help me sleep longer once I realized the stress just wasn't worth it. Was incredibly lonely and painful though particularly since I so desperately wanted a husband which would also mean I'd never be alone. It had nothing to do with wanting free food or not needing to help. That's a silly way to look at it and kinda mean too. If they ate inviting themselves out its because they need it. It's how they stay sane. And they haven't reached the point yet where staying home alone is slightly less painful so they beg. Hopefully they never get to the point of staying home alone.
Back to top

amother
Lilac


 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 2:28 pm
Op,

It's obvious that the only connection you have to these single "friends" is through Facebook. If you really had authentic conversation with them and understood what it's like as a single for shabbos, eating alone, and not knowing how many more weeks/month/years/decades it's gonna be like that--- I think you'd have a little more sensitivity. But I understand why you don't get it, you're probably not someone your single friends feel like they can vent to.

-Someone who got married "older
Back to top

amother
Slateblue


 

Post Fri, Jul 31 2015, 2:33 pm
Raisin wrote:
I'm not sure why a person such as this is more deserving of a shabbos meal then a lonely single person. or a lonely couple who just moved into town and has no friends. After all, they can (probably) go to the deli and buy cooked food. Why do they need a hot meal? They "want" a hot shabbos meal and probably the company too. Sitting alone and eating a shabbos meal is not fun for many people (although it actually sounds pretty blissful to me Smile ) whether someone is travelling or single.

FTR I am happy to host any one who wants a meal should you find yourself in my neck of the wood.


Rather than travelers being more deserving say they are more needy because when you travel there are limitations on luggage. I can't pack everything I need to make shabbos. I also may not have time or the ability to get what I need for a traditional Shabbos.

We have done Shabbos in hotel rooms bringing everything. This only works when traveling by car.
Back to top
Page 2 of 5 Previous  1  2  3  4  5  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Relationships -> Guests

Related Topics Replies Last Post
What's the latest you would go away for Shabbos if invited
by amother
8 Today at 9:42 am View last post
Shabbos pants for elementary boys
by amother
11 Today at 7:30 am View last post
Kids shabbos shoes affordable. Let's make a list!
by amother
63 Yesterday at 10:17 pm View last post
Last minute opportunity for a Shabbos getaway
by amother
5 Yesterday at 7:14 pm View last post
Amazon shabbos top
by amother
5 Yesterday at 5:04 pm View last post