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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
Help me with a stubborn 9 yr old who refuses to go to sleep
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GetReal




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 15 2015, 9:44 am
Is there a reason why you can't move her in to her older sister's room?
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GetReal




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 15 2015, 9:45 am
Or have you tried sitting with her in her room until she falls asleep?
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 15 2015, 9:53 am
She is screaming for attention, that something is bothering her. She needs some mommy time. I agree with, start sitting with her at bedtime and use that as an opportunity to schmooze with her for like 15 minutes on the clock, then she must be quiet and you will sit with her until she falls asleep.
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Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 15 2015, 10:00 am
Had that with my now 9 yr old too. Here's waht we did:
1) Lavender spray on a pincushion. Give it to her to take to bed and sniff when she needs to feel soothed.
2) I did a visualization exercise with him for a few nights in a row and it really helped. It went something like this.

Close your eyes... relax every part of your body... picture yourself in a meadow, walking on grass, the sun is shining ,the sky is blue, the lake is babbling, we're walking calmly - etc etc etc. Then I told him to tell me where in his body he feels the fear, what color and shape his fear is, and we visualized him squeezing the fear out of his body and filling himself with a beautiful blue light. Then I told him to visualize four guards standing around him, each guard is a different malach, and only they have the key to get in, and the fear cannot get in bc there are malachim not allowing them in. Told him to visualize a big magen dovid surrounding him with anenei hakavod and nothign can harm him.

It took a few WEEKS but eventually he stopped being scared.

If your dd is behaving this way out of misbehavior and not genuine fear then you need a workthrough - I.e. consequences for her behavior. but if she's genuinely scared this will help.

hatzlocha.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 15 2015, 8:58 pm
MELATONIN!!!

Rearrange the bedroom, move the bed and dresser to different walls. Keep her bedroom door wide open.

Sit down with her and ask her what bothers her about the room, and then be quiet and LISTEN to her. Give her 100% of your attention and let her know that you are taking her seriously and that you want to help fix the problem.

If you wear perfume, spray some on her pillow. If you have a shirt that you've worn a lot, give it to her to snuggle at night.

Next, try moving the bedrooms around. Move older DD into the 9yo's room, and the 9yo into older DD's room.

For desperate measures, move DH into 9yo's room, and have 9yo sleep with you. Once she's asleep, you can tiptoe across the hall to DH's room for some quality snuggle time, and then go back to your room to DD.

That's what we ended up having to do, because my 11yo has severe anxiety and sleep issues. We've BTDT, about a thousand times. Thankfully, my DH is a good sport about it, as long as I come to his room every now and then, and don't fall asleep and forget him. Wink
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Sat, May 16 2015, 10:42 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
MELATONIN!!!

Rearrange the bedroom, move the bed and dresser to different walls. Keep her bedroom door wide open.

Sit down with her and ask her what bothers her about the room, and then be quiet and LISTEN to her. Give her 100% of your attention and let her know that you are taking her seriously and that you want to help fix the problem.

If you wear perfume, spray some on her pillow. If you have a shirt that you've worn a lot, give it to her to snuggle at night.

Next, try moving the bedrooms around. Move older DD into the 9yo's room, and the 9yo into older DD's room.

For desperate measures, move DH into 9yo's room, and have 9yo sleep with you. Once she's asleep, you can tiptoe across the hall to DH's room for some quality snuggle time, and then go back to your room to DD.

That's what we ended up having to do, because my 11yo has severe anxiety and sleep issues. We've BTDT, about a thousand times. Thankfully, my DH is a good sport about it, as long as I come to his room every now and then, and don't fall asleep and forget him. Wink

FF, I wonder if all your methods encourage the anxiety to grow. I only read your post and that is what came across to me. I don't know what would be a better solution, but it seems like there has to be one!
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sat, May 16 2015, 11:02 pm
My older daughter is being stubborn right back. As if she can control the situation, by not letting her sleep in her room!
I will try all the good advice and follow up, thanks alot!
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 17 2015, 4:25 am
amother wrote:
FF, I wonder if all your methods encourage the anxiety to grow. I only read your post and that is what came across to me. I don't know what would be a better solution, but it seems like there has to be one!


My kiddo is special needs, and has severe anxiety issues. We've been through years of therapy for it, and nothing changes. In areas where she's not anxious, she's the most confident and outgoing kid you'd ever meet, so it's really weird and hard to manage. I want to try and get her on medication, but she has anxiety about taking pills, too. Confused

If you think of any other solutions, please let me know, because I'm totally open to hearing about something I might not have thought of.
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rachelbg




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 17 2015, 9:43 pm
I'd talk with my pediatrician about it, and ask if he/she might even recommend a mental health professional who specializes in children's behavior.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Tue, Aug 04 2015, 11:46 pm
After another night filled episodes by 9 yr old. I logged on to re-read all your posts and read your good advice.
There are a couple of things that I have tried and do not work.
She claims the windows are scary and so I have put up shades. I tried laying with her. Telling her special stories. And it does not work. She comes out of bed and starts terrorizing the whole house. Waking up the small kids.
I am going to try a much harsher approach, simply because I have no alternative.
I need to be extremely firm "this is yout your ,bed this is your room and this is your bed time"
She is extremely strong willed. Physically strong thank G-d. And not easy for me to physically push her into her room. But when she sais no! It leaves me no choice.
She is doing this to prove to her sisters that she hates that room and she will not sleep in there. And she wants to sleep with them and they wont let her.
in my heart I feel sorry for her. Why does she have to be so stubborn? Why can't she listen to us? Every night has to be a battle. I wish there was something else I can do. But I can not spend hundreds of dollars trying to rearrange the room. She will find an excuse, simply because she does not want to sleep in there!
Thank you for letting me vent
Amother Crying
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2015, 2:58 am
Yes. I am sympathetic to her fears. I would re-arrange her room, put the bed in a new position, get new cushions, hang nice pictures, get a new bedspread, and a decorative nightlight. And a protective stuffed animal, such as a large dog, a guard dog type.

If she is quiet in her sister's room, I think her sister may have to let her sleep in that room.

You might also switch rooms, so her present room is her sister's and her sister's room becomes hers.

I think you should schedule a paid session, by yourself, with an expert.

I am also wondering if she is too thin. Make sure she eats solidly, and gets sunshine.

See what's up in school. Ask the school how she is doing.

Get RID of those kids speak books.

You say she sucked her thumb a long time so this has been an anxious child.

This 30 inch panda might help.

http://www.thejunglestore.com/.....Jumbo
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2015, 7:29 am
Talk to her at a calm point in the day and explain to her that bedtime isn't working for everyone - she's not resting/going to sleep, she's waking up others and you need your own space and for bedtime to be less combative. Ask her how she can contribute to a smooth bedtime. Listen to hear if she has any ideas.

Also, what's her currency? Does she like time on the computer, pocket money, time with you? "Pay" her based on her behavior. Bedtime goes well? She gets 15 minutes on the computer in the morning or whatever.

I don't like bribing my kids to behave, but sometimes the rewards work well for your sanity.
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rowo




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2015, 9:26 am
How many kids and how many bedrooms do you have?
Why is the only option by herself or with the older sister?
Sometimes just having someone else there even if it's a younger sibling can help. There might be other arrangements that could help.

I agree with other posters, sit down with her at a calm, quiet time during the day and discuss it with her. She can help come up with a solution.

I remember lying in bed being petrified as a child. It's scary and I just wanted comfort. I try to remember that when my kids come to me at night with their fears. And if my room is more comforting for them to fall asleep sometimes, that's fine, when I'm ready I take them back to their room.

If she does have anxiety and needs more help than you can give her to keep calm a few sessions with a child psychologist would probably be very beneficial. Not to mention that they could probably give you and your husband some tools to help deal with the situation.

Just one more question - why would it cost hundreds of dollars to switch around a bedroom?
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2015, 12:20 pm
I am thinking forcing a sister to let her sleep in her room may not be good. The sister has a right to her room, as she has been brought up to expect that.

Has anybody been actually looking into the DD's windows? That can happen sometimes, for real.

Have any men, neighbors, workmen, relatives, anybody, been improper with her and talked to her about which room is hers, or know?

Are you a hundred percent sure this kid has nothing to be afraid of? Really? Think about it.

Sometimes a kid refuses to sleep so as to not miss the A party, the after party, where the really cool stuff happens. For that, you all act very sleepy and say nothing and lower the lights, so the kid thinks, yeah, this joint is closed for the night. Nothing to stay awake for.

I always stayed in the room. I had a folded blanket on the floor and just lay there and waited. I only left when all was silent. If asked "was I still there" I answered in a carefully muffled sleepy voice.

What you describe sounds rather extreme.

I do NOT see this as a "kid being bad" situation. I feel for her, and think you should get a professional opinion and professional guidance and intervention.

I DO think there may be a physical component, and melatonin was mentioned upthread.

She may not want to be left alone with her thoughts. Puberty starts now, of course. DO GET HER that large stuffed panda or something equally protectively LARGE. If not quite 30 inches big, rather big.

If you simply stay with her a bit, does it help?

Put some prettiness into her life. It comforts a developing girl to know she won't be disdained as ugly or nebby. "Windows" may mean "mirrors" to her.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 05 2015, 4:23 pm
OP, you say: "She is extremely strong willed. Physically strong thank G-d. And not easy for me to physically push her into her room. But when she sais no! It leaves me no choice. "

Er, physically shoving her in there at age nine, and locking the door on her, does not sound like the thing to do, OP. It may not be legal.

Is this a wild, out of control child during the day, at school, and in other settings, or is it just this one thing, bedtime?

Please phone the pediatrician today, and have a very long talk with him/her, today, before tonight's bedtime. I would say to do that today.

Ask how to obtain Melatonin.

When you call, today, describe the family dynamic, meaning how this DD fits into the family, not at bedtime but in general.

That might be a good thing to do today.

Don't go shoving people.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Thu, Aug 06 2015, 12:54 am
Just to update. I spoke to a teacher of hers and this is what we did tonight.
I know she really wants a new game for Shabbos, I have a star chart for my kids where they earn prizes. So I went out and bought her the new game. Usually the kids do a chore, or daven or behave nicely they earn a star. I told her if she goes to bed nicely tonight without terrorizing the whole house and waking up the little kids she can get two stars. she asked me if she can sleep in the hallway by her room and I told her thats ok. As long as is not disturbing anyone.
In the end because she was acting like a mentch her older sister let her sleep in her room. Ans she is sleeping bh soundly! Very Happy
I think she simply needs to be taught how to behave like apostee mentioned above. Its ok to be scared and to be anxious. But its not ok to behave like a 5 mo old whos getting teeth!
Thanks for all your advice!
Amother
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 06 2015, 12:59 am
Good work. I honor you.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 06 2015, 1:49 am
The only problem is that now that big sis gave her this reward, DD is going to want this all the time. If DD behaves every time, will she get to sleep in there?

I would work out something with the big sis, rewarding her for giving her little sis that positive attn. Rather than keep trying to deal with a 9 yo's irrational fears and need for closeness.
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