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Rules of mourners sitting shiva



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amother
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Post Wed, Aug 12 2015, 8:33 am
As someone who sitting shiva I want to know what is ok to do. I know very well that our rav is the one to answer my shailos to, but what about the following: answering texts and emails when someone is saying BDE, etc.
I feel wrong doing it, but IS it wrong?

I guess it's just what we feel.
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CatLady




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2015, 8:54 am
My sympathies on your loss. May you be comforted among the mourners of Zion.

Halachically, there's no social obligation for mourners to speak to people coming to pay their respects at a house of shiva unless they care to do so. In that light, just reading the messages may be enough and you can respond at a later date.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2015, 9:29 am
I think it's more a matter of etiquette than halacha in this case. If someone is in the middle of saying "hamakom" can't you wait five seconds to answer the text? As much as people will say that shiva is about the mourners, and it's true the point is for the mourners to mourn, that doesn't mean you're not allowed to be considerate of the people who come also. Imagine how you'd feel if you came to visit a mourner, which is always awkward in some way, and they ignored you to answer their email.

However, if it's not just "hamakom" and the visitor is blathering on and on and you want to move on, you can politely and respectfully excuse yourself. "Excuse me, I need to take this call/message/whatever." and then depending whether you have any desire/intention of continuing, either "Thanks for coming" or "I'll be right back with you."

And if you particularly don't feel up to chatter in general, think if there is someone else there with you whom you can ask to help move out the chattery types. Often a friend or relative will try to stick around a shiva house to help direct traffic and such.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2015, 9:55 am
seeker wrote:
I think it's more a matter of etiquette than halacha in this case. If someone is in the middle of saying "hamakom" can't you wait five seconds to answer the text? As much as people will say that shiva is about the mourners, and it's true the point is for the mourners to mourn, that doesn't mean you're not allowed to be considerate of the people who come also. Imagine how you'd feel if you came to visit a mourner, which is always awkward in some way, and they ignored you to answer their email.

However, if it's not just "hamakom" and the visitor is blathering on and on and you want to move on, you can politely and respectfully excuse yourself. "Excuse me, I need to take this call/message/whatever." and then depending whether you have any desire/intention of continuing, either "Thanks for coming" or "I'll be right back with you."

And if you particularly don't feel up to chatter in general, think if there is someone else there with you whom you can ask to help move out the chattery types. Often a friend or relative will try to stick around a shiva house to help direct traffic and such.


I think that OP was referring to responding to emails or texts that say "BDE" or otherwise express sympathy -- does she need to do it now, or can she wait until after the shiva has concluded. Not to reading or responding to emails at the same time that others are expressing their sympathies to her at the shiva.

OP, BDE. So sorry for your loss. And IMNSHO, do what feels right to you. You're not obligated to respond now. But if you want to, you should.
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2015, 10:10 am
OP, I'm sorry for your station.
I think if you are texting and e-mailing regarding the shiva it would be okay. Obviously you have to be okay with it yourself, and if you are not you can push it off until later. but it sounds like the content is applicable to the moment.
I don't think you should worry about hurting anyone's feelings and have that as your motivator to respond. I think you should do whatever feels right.
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mommyla




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2015, 10:38 am
If anyone is hurt by your lack of response, that's their problem, not yours. I've texted/emailed aveilim when it was their preferred form of contact and never received any reply. I didn't expect one! Paying a shiva call is not about the visitor but about the avel; if the avel does not want to engage in "conversation" of any kind, that's his or her right.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2015, 10:53 am
Barbara wrote:
I think that OP was referring to responding to emails or texts that say "BDE" or otherwise express sympathy -- does she need to do it now, or can she wait until after the shiva has concluded. Not to reading or responding to emails at the same time that others are expressing their sympathies to her at the shiva.

OP, BDE. So sorry for your loss. And IMNSHO, do what feels right to you. You're not obligated to respond now. But if you want to, you should.

Ohhh I totally misread the OP and jumped to the wrong conclusion. Sorry OP! My mistake.
But still I think it is just an etiquette thing. Replying thank you would certainly be appropriate. If you don't, no sin but would definitely be the nice thing to do.
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amother
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Post Fri, Aug 14 2015, 3:32 am
What about wishing someone Mazel Tov? I thought u were not allowed or it's not appropriate to wish Mazel Tov or give a Bracha to someone? It's not my first time sitting shiva and I do remember something about that from last time. Someone came yesterday to be menachem Avel me and her daughter got engaged recently. I said to her "I'm not allowed to say Mazel Tov to u" ( as a way of saying Mazel Tov). She said straight out to me that she thought u were allowed to wish someone Mazel Tov while sitting shiva. I was wondering if then it's appropriate when someone says " u should only have simchas" and I say " amen u too"? I only say "amen".

I also have another question....
Anyone at all hear about the inyan of doing kriyah on their outer garment and the shell too? We had to do 2 kriyas: and I never did b4 .... I want to know if there is a source for that anywhere. (My rav is out of town. )
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the world's best mom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 14 2015, 6:27 am
Regarding Kriah- I believe that if the Niftar was your parent, you need to tear all layers of your clothing. Otherwise one layer is enough. Not sure about the other stuff.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 14 2015, 7:33 am
the world's best mom wrote:
Regarding Kriah- I believe that if the Niftar was your parent, you need to tear all layers of your clothing. Otherwise one layer is enough. Not sure about the other stuff.


We were told to tear the top layer only. I was wearing a shell and a vest-like top and I tore the vest. How would it be tzanuah any other way? I was told to tear quite a way down.
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Fri, Aug 14 2015, 8:22 am
I was told two different things by different rabbanim. One said that by parents, you tear everything. So you wear two layers, and you tear the bottom layer and then cover it and tear the top layer somewhere else, so nothing shows.

Do what your rav tells you. Also, if you don't tear your shell, some rabbanim allow you to change it daily, particularly in warm weather, because it functions like an undershirt that absorbs sweat.
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amother
Pumpkin


 

Post Fri, Aug 14 2015, 8:27 am
Have you read the Jewish Way in Death and Mourning? It was written pre text messaging but it is a great resource.
OP so sorry for your loss
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