Torn bet. two priorities: I want to be the best mom and wife

gryp

Wed, May 02 2007, 8:11 pm

Quote:

Maybe you are yotzei the mitzvah, but you aren't really learning.

I think that's what counts.
(Besides, you are supposed to learn something 100 times, so unless you've been teaching for a hundred years, the simple Chumash/Rashi, Halacha, or Parsha that you teach should still be considered learning.)

Quote:

AllI think that means is that someone who teaches should also make time to learn.

Absolutely.

Crayon210

Wed, May 02 2007, 9:12 pm

GR wrote:

Quote:

Maybe you are yotzei the mitzvah, but you aren't really learning.

I think that's what counts.

Of course. I was discussing it from the perspective of this teacher (who anyway doesn't have the same chiyuv to learn).

Quote:

(Besides, you are supposed to learn something 100 times, so unless you've been teaching for a hundred years, the simple Chumash/Rashi, Halacha, or Parsha that you teach should still be considered learning.)

I don't know. There's a different feel to preparing and reviewing than just stam reviewing.

amother

Wed, May 02 2007, 10:19 pm

crayon, out of curiousity, if someone has an inheritance and does not need to work, are you against the husband learning full time and the wife staying home?

Or how about if the parents are wealthy and they can support, do you also think that is wrong?

Crayon210

Wed, May 02 2007, 10:21 pm

If the wife is able to stay home, I have less of a problem with it, though I still think there are issues with full-time learning for the long term.

amother

Thu, May 03 2007, 12:24 am

What are your issues, I am really curious.

Crayon210

Thu, May 03 2007, 12:50 am

You can PM or e-mail me (crayon2100@yahoo.com) if you're that curious.

creativemommyto3

Thu, May 03 2007, 1:22 am

I don't want to get bitten either but I have a hard time with the idea of the woman staying home (not earning money) and the husband being in kollel full time. I have a hard time understanding the idea of not knowing how you will pay for food and basic necissities being in line with the torah way of life. I think one of you have to do some money earning. I don't know how ppl do it in Israel without money. Yes, there are tzedakahs that give out food etc. but is that right if you aren't doing your hishtadlus for your needs? Yes, there is Yissachar /Zevulun but with the whole world being strapped for money, how much can there be to go around?? I always give money when I can.
I think that the more tachlis way to answer this woman is to tell her to get a part time job outside the home or find something to do inside the home that doesn't interfere with her kids schedule. Taking some tzedaka money is okay but if everybody is doing this, where in the world is the money going to come from? If you think it is coming from America, then you are dreaming! Do you know how many ppl in America who are drowning in debt from tuition etc. ??
I have a neighbor who is doing like you. She lives better than me . Not that I am jealous. She managed to get a custom sheitel, buy nice clothes etc. She doesn't get support. She lives on her CC . She does some mending . Her husband's stipend doesn't come in on a steady basis. She gets some tzedakah. I don't think it is right. something has to give. I advocate kollel, but it has to be done in a responsible way.

amother

Thu, May 03 2007, 11:08 am

I am talking about your husband learning, you staying home and parents who are wealthy and want to support, supporting the couple. No programs from the government and Ch"v no tzedakah. That would be the worst, worse than taking from the government. What is wrong with that, if parents want to support and everything is from the parents, no other means, not even wic that the whole world has.

happymom

Thu, May 03 2007, 1:52 pm

I think since your husband has already been brough up, although he wants to learn and that is wonderful he can learn in some time at night... or on sundays or whenever he can but your kids need you. they arent brought up yet, they dont know anything about the real world yet, so although I do understand ure dilema it makes more sense to me that ure husband should work, at least do most of the work so that u can be with your kids.

Health is a Virture

Thu, May 03 2007, 2:24 pm

To answere and clarify some questions. But, my big question is I just don't understand why some people hide behind the "amother." If you feel strongly about certain views why can't you be confident to write them? Anyway...

I do not take tzedaka! I hope I never have to take tzedaka! My husband would work 100 hours a week, I would work 100 hours a week before I ever took tzedaka! Hakadosh baruch hu happened to bless us that in our situation we don't need so much money and the rest He takes care of us. I was not advocating that this is what she should do, I was just saying that it was possible. Though, I don't understand what is wrong with taking money from teh government....I have already paid a lot to the government in taxes...believe me!!

Okay, I will tell you how we manage. I happen to have a generous relative that buys clothing and toys for my children. But, then again, I happen to know people that earn 6 figures and also have a relative that does this for them. My husband gets what's considered in Israel a fairly good stipend from his day kollel. He tutors a boy a couple times a week and makes a nice amount from that. he learns in a night kollel and earns a stipend from that. We get a monthly child stipend from teh government (that everybody gets in Israel, regardless of income...not a major amount, but an amount). We also get an additional stipend from teh government because my husband is in kollel, we have at least 3 children, and that I don't work and haven't worked in at least a year. And that is how we do it.

There are times when money is tight...uh, it always is. But, tighter than other times, and we wonder how we will manage. So, sometimes, we will take out money from our savings, but then we will get presents and replenish our savings. We live very, very simply. \

This lifestyle is definitely not for everyone, adn I definitely DO NOT advocate it for everyone. I happen to know numerous people that were mamash begging for money. We also give a lot of tzedaka, which I think somehow helps us. I really dont' know how we do it. But, this is the way people do things iN israel. It's possible to live this way in America, but it's a lot, lot harder.

Whenever we need something that we can't afford, we can ask for help, though we try to minimize it to once or twice a year. Also, my dh eats lunch and sometimes breakfast from the yeshiva that he learns in.

This was right for us. And if we had to ask for Tzedaka then it wouldn't be the right thing. BTW, most of the people in dire straights and needing tzedaka, loans, etc, are NOT husbands in kollel, wives not working (I know bec. my husband is active in a tzedaka fund and he told me this.) he said most of them are actually income people that just don't know how to manage their finances and spend well beyond their means. We know how to be frugal. It's people who think they don't have to be frugal and are not frugal at all who have problems and need tzedaka, oftentimes. Or, they are used to a certain standard of living and then lose their job and so need tzedaka until they can get back on their feet. We're just poor. We learn when to pay our bills, push some bills off until money comes in, etc.

And, I"m just wondering, what is wrong with taking money from the government? They want people to have children and are encouraging the wives to be home with the children. And they want to help those who are learning Torah.

AGain, I was not advocating for her to do this. I was merely saying that it is possible. That given, I wrote about a middle method which was to work less and/or husband work a little, switch to a higher paying kollel, tutor more, etc.

Health is a Virture

Thu, May 03 2007, 2:31 pm

To answer and clarify some questions. But, my big question is I just don't understand why some people hide behind the "amother." If you feel strongly about certain views why can't you be confident to write them? Anyway...

I do not take tzedaka! I hope I never have to take tzedaka! My husband would work 100 hours a week, I would work 100 hours a week before I ever took tzedaka! Hakadosh baruch hu happened to bless us that in our situation we don't need so much money and the rest He takes care of us. I was not advocating that this is what she should do, I was just saying that it was possible. Though, I don't understand what is wrong with taking money from teh government....I have already paid a lot to the government in taxes...believe me!!

Okay, I will tell you how we manage. I happen to have a generous relative that buys clothing and toys for my children. But, then again, I happen to know people that earn 6 figures and also have a relative that does this for them. My husband gets what's considered in Israel a fairly good stipend from his day kollel. He tutors a boy a couple times a week and makes a nice amount from that. he learns in a night kollel and earns a stipend from that. We get a monthly child stipend from teh government (that everybody gets in Israel, regardless of income...not a major amount, but an amount). We also get an additional stipend from teh government because my husband is in kollel, we have at least 3 children, and that I don't work and haven't worked in at least a year. And that is how we do it.

There are times when money is tight...uh, it always is. But, tighter than other times, and we wonder how we will manage. So, sometimes, we will take out money from our savings, but then we will get presents and replenish our savings. We live very, very simply. \

This lifestyle is definitely not for everyone, adn I definitely DO NOT advocate it for everyone. I happen to know numerous people that were mamash begging for money. We also give a lot of tzedaka, which I think somehow helps us. I really dont' know how we do it. But, this is the way people do things iN israel. It's possible to live this way in America, but it's a lot, lot harder.

Whenever we need something that we can't afford, we can ask for help, though we try to minimize it to once or twice a year. Also, my dh eats lunch and sometimes breakfast from the yeshiva that he learns in.

This was right for us. And if we had to ask for Tzedaka then it wouldn't be the right thing. BTW, most of the people in dire straights and needing tzedaka, loans, etc, are NOT husbands in kollel, wives not working (I know bec. my husband is active in a tzedaka fund and he told me this.) he said most of them are actually income people that just don't know how to manage their finances and spend well beyond their means. We know how to be frugal. It's people who think they don't have to be frugal and are not frugal at all who have problems and need tzedaka, oftentimes. Or, they are used to a certain standard of living and then lose their job and so need tzedaka until they can get back on their feet. We're just poor. We learn when to pay our bills, push some bills off until money comes in, etc.

And, I"m just wondering, what is wrong with taking money from the government? Why is it okay for all your tax money to go to cocaine addicted children, programs to foster aid for single mothers (whose husbands are on drugs and they dont' even know who the fathers are), programs to help get them to work, programs to help them quit doing drugs, programs to help them quit smoking? I know who are on the welfare logs as I worked for a couple years in this field. You cannot imagine how much money is dishes out to send these childrne to special day care centers that cost 4 times or more what you pay in babysitting!! Lots of money is spent on programs to help the parent, NOT parents, become marketable and can earn a living, and then they still get stipends from teh government. Why can't frum yidden get money from the governemtn to help finance their children's tuition and help mothers raise their children and/or fathers to learn another year in kollel? Maybe there is something wrong with my hashkafa, but I am just wondering.

My parents paid thousands and thousands of dollars in school taxes to the State, and they never saw that money. it went to the public school. why woudl it be wrong for their children to be able to receive some of it back by getting WIC because their husbands are in kollel? Or, in chinuch, but the wife doesn't want to work so much so she can take care of their children? Maybe my hashkafa is warped, but I was just wondering why.

It is not like we do not do our hishtadlus, we just do it differently.
AGain, I was not advocating for her to do this. I was merely saying that it is possible. That given, I wrote about a middle method which was to work less and/or husband work a little, switch to a higher paying kollel, tutor more, etc.

amother

Fri, May 04 2007, 11:29 am

Even though your husband is learning he is still the one working and bringing in the income.

Motek

Sun, May 06 2007, 9:50 pm

Health is a Virture - I find your posts here interesting. I have a question. I'm curious. How does having a computer and Internet fit into a simple life and something you must have?

amother

Sun, May 06 2007, 10:45 pm

a person can get a computer for $300, that is only a one time fee. Also you can get better deals on line. And dial up is free with your phone line so it does not cost extra.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, May 07 2007, 11:44 am

Motek, some people need a computer and internet for work? (She did say she used to work). Perhaps it was a gift. Who knows? That's totally unrelated to the "simple lifestyle" she's living.

Health is a Virture

Mon, May 07 2007, 3:38 pm

computer was used, got it from an old company for free. I have voice over IP for long distance...meaning, I need the Internet line anyway for my international phone carrier (comes out cheaper that way.) In addition, we often talk about cancelling and just getting a regular long distance carrier because I don't really like having Internet (only use Internet right now for email nd IMamother) . But, I do sometimes do work and then I need my computer and email.

You don't have to believe me, but believe me we live simply!!

Yes, my dh brings in the income but he is still in kollel....and so I was explaining how there are ways that she can stay home, at least not have to work full time, and still have her husband learn full time. Hence, the reason for my post.

I think we all have to remember that money is from hashem. It is the husband's responsibility and if one ever feels that it is too hard to work and they need the money, then I think we would all agree that it is the responsibility of teh husband to go out and work. But that does not negate the fact that it is a beautiful thing for a husband to be able to learn Torah full time. and that the children and wife gain tremendously from this.

greatfulmom

Mon, May 07 2007, 3:55 pm

Okay, original poster here. I appreciate all your posts. This is a very contraversial subject, and we can never have everyone agree to one point, right?! I think I will leave a lot up to Hashem, and I will try my best to work out the right thing that is best for us.

Everything is from shamayim.

sarahd

Tue, May 08 2007, 4:56 am

Health is a Virture wrote:

You don't have to believe me, but believe me we live simply!!

So which is it, believe me or don't believe me? LOL