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Iriya gan scandal
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Thu, Aug 27 2015, 5:36 pm
My child describes them doing disgusting sick things to themselves.

It really doesn't matter if they are twisted Jews or twisted non-Jews. Why do people get hung up on that?

So many have said to me 'it's probably a hysteria...I've heard it's really Jews!'--so what?? They are not acting like Jews or even like human beings or even like animals.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 27 2015, 5:38 pm
cyj1836 wrote:
Thank you.. and I was posting a reply to a quote that was in this thread. I thought it was an important point that they were making, that victims coming forward can make changes. Which is true, although the other point it brought out, which does affect this community, is that the crimes against children can be very organized. The case with Nechemya Weberman sited many instances of him burning his victims, which is an example of sadism. Sadistic torture methods are used by many sick individuals who actually find pleasure in causing pain to others. And these methods are passed along in their sickness, to further intimidate their victims. It is important for those reading these posts, and finding these storie so horrendous that they must be false, or at least embellished, to realize they are not far fetched.


Thanks for clarifying.

I don't think anyone doubts that abuse and torture is possible. Tragically, it happens somewhere to some child every day.

It's the scale, organization, and sophisticated cooperation and coercion tactics on the victims, adults, and caregivers that is so terrifying in this case. Weberman was one man acting alone, only one victim has come forward.

This is so beyond that, there are no words but to read comparisons by agonized mothers to the holocaust.
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 27 2015, 5:51 pm
amother wrote:
My child describes them doing disgusting sick things to themselves.

It really doesn't matter if they are twisted Jews or twisted non-Jews. Why do people get hung up on that?

So many have said to me 'it's probably a hysteria...I've heard it's really Jews!'--so what?? They are not acting like Jews or even like human beings or even like animals.


It doesn't and shouldn't matter. You're right. We need to stop it. Full stop.

It's just that if these are Jews destroying our own, it gives that extra sickening dimension to this horror. Like that rush of disgust you feel when an American joins ISIS... but much worse. Betrayal by our own is so much more painful than attack from outside.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Thu, Aug 27 2015, 6:05 pm
I agree with you but I can't understand why people get so defensive at the idea of it being non jews or very twisted Jews, and are so seemingly comfortable with the idea (sorry not the reality) of it 'just' being frum teachers in the institutions abusing students?
Isn't the second one more bothersome than the first?
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cyj1836




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 27 2015, 6:17 pm
youngishbear wrote:
Thanks for clarifying.

I don't think anyone doubts that abuse and torture is possible. Tragically, it happens somewhere to some child every day.

It's the scale, organization, and sophisticated cooperation and coercion tactics on the victims, adults, and caregivers that is so terrifying in this case. Weberman was one man acting alone, only one victim has come forward.

This is so beyond that, there are no words but to read comparisons by agonized mothers to the holocaust.


I did read those words, and it is so painful to know such horror exists. In the Weberman case, only one victim went to trial, but many have come forward, and many speak about being burned. As for the scale and organization, I'm not sure there is even a good comparison since the children here that are being affected are so young and vulnerable. What is similar is that Weberman wasn't exactly acting alone. There are many that knew, and enabled his schemes, because they were also abusing some of his victims. There is so much more to that scandal that has been exposed. They have a ring of pedophiles there as well, many of which are operating exclusively in the mikvahs. These crimes are so unspeakable and I have spent so many sleepless nights just crying for these poor neshamos. I thank H-shem every day I have not been directly affected, but in so many ways I feel as if I have been. I'v looked into these issues so much, I feel sometimes like it has been a direct hit. These are all of our children; it takes a village. I wish us all the deepest healing this year.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Thu, Aug 27 2015, 11:44 pm
amother wrote:
Well the main thing we need is MONEY to fund the privately funded investigation, that was hired by a group of a few extremely sensitive, dedicated people that literally mortgaged their houses to stop the evil. We have lost hope of the normal route--police, because they have been given tons of info and not responded. If someone is really touched by this machla in Klal Yisroel, they can contact Rabbi Greenwald to get more info and find out about donating or fundraising for the cause. 050 406 8300.
The investigators are seeing progress in their work, and are actually getting somewhere, but since it is privately funded, it is very hard for them to do their jobs. It doesn't help that there are only a few gedolim willing to put their names behind the efforts.


E"Y has big gedolim. What is the reason that none of the Gedolim are putting their names behind this?
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 2:17 am
edited
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 2:25 am
People please! Use your seichel! DO NOT keep anything "quiet"! Talk to mothers and parents in general! They have to watch their kids! I live in Yerushalaim and yesterday there were many children playing unsupervised. Some boys drove up in a car (for the third or more time) and gave them stickers to put in their album (areivim?? whatever they are called) There were no parents around! I was the only one there watching mine. It is ridiculuos! Close the gemaras if the mommies are exhausted and stay with your children!!! Stop business as usual!!! I talked to a mother yesterday (not English speaking) and she NEVER heard anything


Everything I read by the way sounds like this is only done in the English speaking communities and chedorim/gans that have many children from English speaking families. That part in the whole thing makes no sense to me. Not that everything else makes perfect sense either, ... though I believe something horrendous IS going on.
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 2:53 am
If this is mainly happening in charedi schools with many Anglo families, one solution might be to transfer your kids to a chiloni gan or school, or at least to a totally Israeli non-charedi school.
That's an easier preventative measure than quitting one's job to homeschool, or moving back to America.
And whoever is trying to keep this hush hush is doing a great job, as I know many native israelis in Jerusalem, and not one has mentioned this, nor have I ever read one word about it in the local papers.
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 3:18 am
I only have experience with chiloni or regular dati ganim and schools, but they are all run like army bases, with locked gates and guards. When I want to bring my kid something I have to explain who I am, and many are asked for ID. If I want to take my child early, I need to first go to the secretary and get signed permission to show the guard.
Even at the end of the day, the guard keeps an eye on who is taking the little ones. The younger grades need written permission in the beginning of the year if they will be picked up by anyone other than a parent, and that includes older siblings.
There should be no excuse for any school not to be run like this. No secret entrances that only the rebbeim have keys for.
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cyj1836




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 3:52 am
amother wrote:
Start with him because he is the official "face" to the investigation [meaning donations go through him, and he meets with people to explain the situation and he meets with rabbanim and other influential community people to spread knowledge] He can tell you all of the players and their views and the politics on how to deal with the situation. He can give you more phone numbers of people involved.


Where can we find his contact info?

You can also call Shawna from MaGen... 052-502-5522, she is a wealth of resources and very grounded.
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cyj1836




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 3:56 am
amother wrote:
I heard that R'Steinman poskined to keep it quiet. And the reason given was because it would be blamed on the chareidim by the hilonim. I didn't heard that from him myself. No comment.


Rav Eliyashav poskined that we should go to the police. See his letters of intent on the blog of R. Nahum Rosenberg. He has letters from Geronimo in a PDF file, either 12 or 13 different ones that specifically guide us to go directly to the police. It is not me soar, it's pikuach nefesh.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 4:12 am
I live in Yerushalayim very close to the so called affected area. How can it be that besides for imamother, I have not heard ANYTHING about this. I have asked my neighbours, my husband has asked in shul, and NOBODY has any clue what we are talking about!
I have kids in more than one school. Yes, I pmd Yael, but have not gotten any smarter. At this point I'm really frustrated.
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cyj1836




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 5:24 am
amother wrote:
I live in Yerushalayim very close to the so called affected area. How can it be that besides for imamother, I have not heard ANYTHING about this. I have asked my neighbours, my husband has asked in shul, and NOBODY has any clue what we are talking about!
I have kids in more than one school. Yes, I pmd Yael, but have not gotten any smarter. At this point I'm really frustrated.


I'm not sure how either, but you're not alone. It is very difficult content that is often not delved into publicly and socially. I've been hearing about it from afar until we moved to sanhedria murchevit. I've heard lots since my arrival Jan 2014, but I ask lots of questions, of everyone.
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 5:28 am
Basically, for mothers and fathers everywhere this should be a very loud signal TO WATCH OUR KIDS! They are our precious diamonds and NOTHING is more important than them. I tell my children that mommie is outside because you are the biggest and most expensive diamonds in the world and you would never just leave diamonds unattended. We would not leave our jewelry or money on the street and we do our children???

Yes, we live in Yerushalaim ir hakodesh and every piece of it is KADOSH as is the rest of E'Y, but today the reality is that Hshem for His reasons (to wake us up!?) is letting the evil run its full course... almost (these are not my words but words of Rabbi Brevda ztl!) We have to be vigilant, smart and take care of the gifts Hshem bestowed upon us.

Is there a [filth] /sadistic ^&*(% whatever ring that is taking children and programming them r'l?? ... maybe.

If some of this information is embellished, it is there in the potential anyway!!

We have to do our histadlus!!! We also have to change, do teshuva, turn to Hshem and do it hopefully NOT in our tight dress! We have to change!! There is no other way, no short cuts, nothing. This is the end of the road! We can't take any more of this!!

I don't know about you but when my children are potentially threatened, nothing is too much to do! I am scared of what Hshem can do if we his children stray from his Truth!

This horrible situation (whatever the truth of it is or is not) is from Hshem, don't make any mistake about it and don't tell yourself sippurim. Don't make excuses! Do your part, EVERYTHING you can do, do, and watch your kids even if you are tired, etc. and Hshem will help all of us! U'Teshuva, U'Tefilla, U'Tzedaka Maavirin ES Roa Hagazeira!
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 6:17 am
amother wrote:
Basically, for mothers and fathers everywhere this should be a very loud signal TO WATCH OUR KIDS!

Is there a [filth] /sadistic ^&*(% whatever ring that is taking children and programming them r'l?? ... maybe.

If some of this information is embellished, it is there in the potential anyway!!

We have to do our histadlus!!!
This horrible situation (whatever the truth of it is or is not) is from Hshem, don't make any mistake about it and don't tell yourself sippurim.


I don't understand this post.
I watched my kids constantly and took them to and from gan myself. And you hint numerous times to embellishment and this not being true, while blasting everyone for not watching their kids.
First of all, it is true, second of all, do you watch your kids in their ganim?

I think you (and a few other posters) need to make a new thread called
'General safety guidelines to prevent child s-xual abuse', because whether or not you realize, you are simultaneously invalidating and blaming victims' mothers.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 7:10 am
amother wrote:
I live in Yerushalayim very close to the so called affected area. How can it be that besides for imamother, I have not heard ANYTHING about this. I have asked my neighbours, my husband has asked in shul, and NOBODY has any clue what we are talking about!
I have kids in more than one school. Yes, I pmd Yael, but have not gotten any smarter. At this point I'm really frustrated.

Except for the part about not getting info from Yael, I have seen many posts like this and my first thought is:

If I were in your shoes, I'd be relieved, whereas most posters in the same situation seem even more panicked. After all, if my child never mentioned anything, isn't it reasonable to assume that is a sign that he never had any of these horrible things happen to him? If no other parent has a clue what you are talking about, then isn't that a sign they also have not heard anything untoward from their children? Isn't that the exact result you'd expect in a school in which this never happened at all?

I ask my kids every day to tell me something interesting that happened to them in school/gan. I would think if they were taken off school/gan grounds and could recall the types of things people here have been describing their children telling them, they'd mention it.
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 7:16 am
amother wrote:
I don't understand this post.
I watched my kids constantly and took them to and from gan myself. And you hint numerous times to embellishment and this not being true, while blasting everyone for not watching their kids.
First of all, it is true, second of all, do you watch your kids in their ganim?

I think you (and a few other posters) need to make a new thread called
'General safety guidelines to prevent child s-xual abuse', because whether or not you realize, you are simultaneously invalidating and blaming victims' mothers.


I am certainly not invalidating anyone! I am looking at things with a healthy scepticism. I believe that there are abusers! It is just the whole aspect of cult/ring of this size aspect that is very hard to swallow and especially that it has been going on for years... of course it IS possible! I am crying for the parents and children! My heart is BREAKING! I am just saying that we have to do WHATEVER we can and also realize that these things do not just happen our of the blue!!! Hshem runs this world!! WHY??? has it happened if it did?? And if only a number of kids were hurt and it is not a cult or something more sinister, our whole community is in a panic or something of that sort and everyone can be a suspect in that kind of climate! That is also a tragedy! I know a good Rebbe just fired from a cheder where some of these abuses took place.

I am NOT blaming the mothers or fathers c'v shalom! I am saying that in MY neighborhood the kids are still ALONE outside all the time and it is hefker r'l for a sicko to come in. Someone tried to do something in my cheder too, but did not succeed BH...

Do you want me to say that it JUST happened??? JUST STAM...? No, as hard as it is, the truth is that Hshem is not giving us a prize by allowing this!!! What does it mean? We have to think.

We as a people HAVE to wake up. I have pain, pain, pain in my heart to think that ANY jewish child has been traumatized like this. I also can not believe that through various means we can't stop these evil people from acting.

We have to think and be honest instead of accusing everyone of "invalidating" the pain of the victims. There has to be honest talk! If we are such tzaddikim then why were evil atrocious monsters able to damage/steal precious neshamos of our children??? Hshem loves every Jew ... so why?
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Peanut2




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 8:16 am
This is ridiculous.

This is absolute hysteria.

I am sure that abuse happens. I am sure abuse happened. This whole conspiracy theory is virtually impossible.

If your child is being abused please contact the authorities. Speak to your doctor, call the police, speak to a social worker. The city of Jerusalem has frum charedi social workers. There are frum doctors in Jerusalem, including English-speaking black hat types. There are frum cops. This is not the Wild West.

I googled this in Hebrew, found some allegations by parents about ONE gan, and the comments section seemed to elaborate that it's one rebbe who was abusing kids for many years. That's horrific, but not ritualistic large scale organized whatever this is. Which may exist, but all these claims on here are just terrifying people without any concrete info.

Yael - if you have any information, please contact the authorities or encourage the mothers to do so. Israel is not the Wild West. There is law and order. The main reason police struggle to investigate within the charedi community is because of all the secrecy. They cannot investigate if no one will talk. If anyone feels there is corruption then contact the press. You can PM me for the personal cell phone numbers of English-speaking journalists in Jerusalem. I feel a little uncomfortable posting them here. I am also happy to give phone numbers to an English-speaking mental health professional or police officer if PMed.

The only way to stop the abuse is to talk. There is no other way. Watch your kids, yes, and if you know something is wrong tell someone.
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 28 2015, 8:20 am
amother wrote:
Basically, for mothers and fathers everywhere this should be a very loud signal TO WATCH OUR KIDS! They are our precious diamonds and NOTHING is more important than them. I tell my children that mommie is outside because you are the biggest and most expensive diamonds in the world and you would never just leave diamonds unattended. We would not leave our jewelry or money on the street and we do our children???

Yes, we live in Yerushalaim ir hakodesh and every piece of it is KADOSH as is the rest of E'Y, but today the reality is that Hshem for His reasons (to wake us up!?) is letting the evil run its full course... almost (these are not my words but words of Rabbi Brevda ztl!) We have to be vigilant, smart and take care of the gifts Hshem bestowed upon us.

Is there a [filth] /sadistic ^&*(% whatever ring that is taking children and programming them r'l?? ... maybe.

If some of this information is embellished, it is there in the potential anyway!!

We have to do our histadlus!!! We also have to change, do teshuva, turn to Hshem and do it hopefully NOT in our tight dress! We have to change!! There is no other way, no short cuts, nothing. This is the end of the road! We can't take any more of this!!

I don't know about you but when my children are potentially threatened, nothing is too much to do! I am scared of what Hshem can do if we his children stray from his Truth!

This horrible situation (whatever the truth of it is or is not) is from Hshem, don't make any mistake about it and don't tell yourself sippurim. Don't make excuses! Do your part, EVERYTHING you can do, do, and watch your kids even if you are tired, etc. and Hshem will help all of us! U'Teshuva, U'Tefilla, U'Tzedaka Maavirin ES Roa Hagazeira!


(Disclaimer: I am talking in general terms here not about individuals who are speaking out and doing all they can.)

Hashem wants us to face the truth. That perhaps we are enablers. That we don't like evil but won't stop evil. And we might rationalize why we should help or participate with evil.

The tnius, davening and Torah are strong by chareidim. They don't need more guilt piled into them about that.

They need balance.

If your learning Torah while the children are being raped maybe close the Gemara and go outside to watch the kids?

If your dressing tnius while the children are being raped maybe focus on child safety?

If your having a cancer grow in your midst maybe go and see the best doctor in the world for treatment?

And if your being denied treatment (police being passive here) then you go to the papers! To save a life what wouldn't a person do?

Shuffling around quietly. Going in circles. Hush hush. Nobody talks. While the evil doers are laughing all the way home.
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