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Charedi girls face empty school



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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 01 2015, 4:22 pm
There's a locked thread out there that discusses the question as to whether charedi schools discriminate when accepting certain pupils.

I don't know whether or not discrimination exists. However, I came across one piece of news today that shocked me. Apparently the courts ordered a certain BY seminary in Jerusalem to accept 21 girls they had rejected.

These 21 girls all showed up today, on the first day of school, fresh and happy and ready for a new year. Fifteen year old girls, probably a little uneasy since originally they had been rejected. But hopeful nonetheless. And they were greeted by an EMPTY SCHOOL!! No staff, no teachers, no other pupils. Only one single teacher was present and she did not speak to them; she just gave them entrance exams, although they had already written them.

The principal and parents organized this, apparently deciding that making a point was more important than basic decency.

I don't understand how this is OK in any world.Let's say indeed the school had no room for these 21 pupils....which I find hard to believe if the courts ordered them in....but even if so, they could have greeted them all with love and figured it out behind closed doors later, or demonstrated for a bigger budget/more rooms/whatever.

And let's say that these girls were just not good enough for the school, for whatever reason. But they wanted a charedi BY education.....couldn't the establishment have somehow organized a proper alternative in time?

And I don't care, actually, what the background is..... to spit in the faces of 15 year old girls? I hope these girls and their families run for their lives and never go near such a school again.

If I'm wrong and this is all made up, I will be so happy to be corrected.
This is the background http://news.walla.co.il/item/2886506

I read about it originally on facebook....the writer was mostly appalled at how the lone teacher who did show up could be so cruel in her silence.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 01 2015, 4:29 pm
Tablepoetry wrote:
There's a locked thread out there that discusses the question as to whether charedi schools discriminate when accepting certain pupils.

I don't know whether or not discrimination exists. However, I came across one piece of news today that shocked me. Apparently the courts ordered a certain BY seminary in Jerusalem to accept 21 girls they had rejected.

These 21 girls all showed up today, on the first day of school, fresh and happy and ready for a new year. Fifteen year old girls, probably a little uneasy since originally they had been rejected. But hopeful nonetheless. And they were greeted by an EMPTY SCHOOL!! No staff, no teachers, no other pupils. Only one single teacher was present and she did not speak to them; she just gave them entrance exams, although they had already written them.

The principal and parents organized this, apparently deciding that making a point was more important than basic decency.

I don't understand how this is OK in any world.Let's say indeed the school had no room for these 21 pupils....which I find hard to believe if the courts ordered them in....but even if so, they could have greeted them all with love and figured it out behind closed doors later, or demonstrated for a bigger budget/more rooms/whatever.

And let's say that these girls were just not good enough for the school, for whatever reason. But they wanted a charedi BY education.....couldn't the establishment have somehow organized a proper alternative in time?

And I don't care, actually, what the background is..... to spit in the faces of 15 year old girls? I hope these girls and their families run for their lives and never go near such a school again.

If I'm wrong and this is all made up, I will be so happy to be corrected.
This is the background http://news.walla.co.il/item/2886506

I read about it originally on facebook....the writer was mostly appalled at how the lone teacher who did show up could be so cruel in her silence.
Isn't that what the school is hoping will happen?
Despicable.
I hope the court penalizes them for this.
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 01 2015, 9:02 pm
I see different variations of this in the charedi world-- wonderful girls not accepted to high school bcz. her mother's Parents are baalei teshuva. A lovely sephardi couple who rent "under the table" bcz. the owner isn't allowed to rent to sepharadim. . .
I just can't understand why people insist on trying to be part of a club that clearly doesn't want them.
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black sheep




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 01 2015, 9:48 pm
wow what a horrible and disgusting thing the school did! those poor 15 year old girls! they did nothing to deserve this shunning. I am nauseated by this story. I agree with you, tablepoetry, that no matter what the background of the story, this action by the school, the parents and the teachers and the administration, is despicable.

heidi, your comment is very mean. should frum jewish girls leave "the club" because they feel unwanted? should jewish families leave neighborhoods, keep their kids home from school, go to less religious schools and neighborhoods because of shunning? do you want them to stop trying to be a part of the frum jewish community? disgusting.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 01 2015, 9:58 pm
black sheep wrote:
heidi, your comment is very mean. should frum jewish girls leave "the club" because they feel unwanted? should jewish families leave neighborhoods, keep their kids home from school, go to less religious schools and neighborhoods because of shunning? do you want them to stop trying to be a part of the frum jewish community? disgusting.

I didn't see her comment as mean at all. I think the idea was: Start your own schools, make them awesome, and leave these snooty racists shnooks to rot.
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black sheep




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 01 2015, 10:09 pm
How long does it take to make a school? Usually it takes decades before a school is even remotely "awesome". If your daughter is not accepted to your community schools, you cannot "start your own school" in time for her. Maybe for your granddaughter.

And shunning people is disgusting. It is not the Jewish way. The problem is not the girls trying to be a part of the school, the problem is the school sending them a message that they are not wanted.

Heidi's comment was mean because she is placing blame on the people who are being shunned, saying they shouldn't be trying to be a part of "a club" that doesn't want them. That is beyond mean. It is disgusting.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 1:08 am
Tablepoetry wrote:
There's a locked thread out there that discusses the question as to whether charedi schools discriminate when accepting certain pupils.

I don't know whether or not discrimination exists. However, I came across one piece of news today that shocked me. Apparently the courts ordered a certain BY seminary in Jerusalem to accept 21 girls they had rejected.

These 21 girls all showed up today, on the first day of school, fresh and happy and ready for a new year. Fifteen year old girls, probably a little uneasy since originally they had been rejected. But hopeful nonetheless. And they were greeted by an EMPTY SCHOOL!! No staff, no teachers, no other pupils. Only one single teacher was present and she did not speak to them; she just gave them entrance exams, although they had already written them.

The principal and parents organized this, apparently deciding that making a point was more important than basic decency.

I don't understand how this is OK in any world.Let's say indeed the school had no room for these 21 pupils....which I find hard to believe if the courts ordered them in....but even if so, they could have greeted them all with love and figured it out behind closed doors later, or demonstrated for a bigger budget/more rooms/whatever.

And let's say that these girls were just not good enough for the school, for whatever reason. But they wanted a charedi BY education.....couldn't the establishment have somehow organized a proper alternative in time?

And I don't care, actually, what the background is..... to spit in the faces of 15 year old girls? I hope these girls and their families run for their lives and never go near such a school again.

If I'm wrong and this is all made up, I will be so happy to be corrected.
This is the background http://news.walla.co.il/item/2886506

I read about it originally on facebook....the writer was mostly appalled at how the lone teacher who did show up could be so cruel in her silence.


I hope its not true
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 1:12 am
black sheep wrote:
How long does it take to make a school? Usually it takes decades before a school is even remotely "awesome". If your daughter is not accepted to your community schools, you cannot "start your own school" in time for her. Maybe for your granddaughter.

And shunning people is disgusting. It is not the Jewish way. The problem is not the girls trying to be a part of the school, the problem is the school sending them a message that they are not wanted.

Heidi's comment was mean because she is placing blame on the people who are being shunned, saying they shouldn't be trying to be a part of "a club" that doesn't want them. That is beyond mean. It is disgusting.

I really don't think it was intended that way at all. At least I didn't read it that way... but of course, heidi can speak for herself.

I read it as, "that's awful, but it sounds like you are better off without this school in the long run." The kind of well-intentioned advice you'd give to someone who was rejected by a nasty boyfriend/shidduch date.
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sped




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 2:06 am
Did any of you read the article? It says nothing of the sort. It says the school went on strike - no one showed up. It says NOTHING about those specific girls, except that most (NOT all) are sefardi.
That seminar has a reputation for being one of the most open and accepting many different types of girls from varied homes. Maybe, just maybe, there is a reason they were not accepted?
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 4:47 am
sped wrote:
Did any of you read the article? It says nothing of the sort. It says the school went on strike - no one showed up. It says NOTHING about those specific girls, except that most (NOT all) are sefardi.
That seminar has a reputation for being one of the most open and accepting many different types of girls from varied homes. Maybe, just maybe, there is a reason they were not accepted?


The article is background. The incident with the girls was on the radio and on facebook (shared and commented on by thousands).

I will assume there was a good reason they were not accepted; it does not excuse the hostility. And this is after all a country with a government. And there was a court order.
I must add that in the charedi sefaradi papers on shabbat they were complaining that the girls arent being accepted because their fathers work and because they are sefaradi (they claimed there was a quota on sefaradim).
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EvenI




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 11:18 am
Strange story. I don't think it's normal for chareidi parents (was it somehow not the parents?) to go to secular courts to contest rejection from one of the most oversubscribed chareidi schools. It's perfectly normal to be rejected from a heavily oversubscribed chareidi school, not a scandal. There must have been far more than 21 rejections. And its not normal when your child still needs a school at the beginning of the year to get the medina to bully the yashan into taking your child, or to expect a good relationship with the school after doing that. You would try somewhere else, at least at this point. I don't have kids in this age group yet, but this seems really obvious to me. There are pushy people who go through chareidi pushy channels, there are accepting people who don't even bother if they know they don't have proteksia, and there are people somewhere in between, who do what they can and then say, we did what we could and it wasn't to be. But this? Not a normal behavior it the parents did this, because there is naturally an obvious tension between the secular courts and the chareidi school on an issue like this.

One way or another, there must be more to this story.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 11:23 am
Why were they all forced into the Yashan? There are many other Seminars in Jerusalem. If each would take 2-3, the problem would be solved. This may require another classroom.
I feel a lot of info is missing.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 11:28 am
I think the only thing to be done now is for the court to tell every teacher and administrator that they are going to jail for a year for contempt of court
These Reshoyim must be taught a lesson they'll never forget
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 11:40 am
black sheep wrote:
How long does it take to make a school? Usually it takes decades before a school is even remotely "awesome". If your daughter is not accepted to your community schools, you cannot "start your own school" in time for her. Maybe for your granddaughter.

And shunning people is disgusting. It is not the Jewish way. The problem is not the girls trying to be a part of the school, the problem is the school sending them a message that they are not wanted.

Heidi's comment was mean because she is placing blame on the people who are being shunned, saying they shouldn't be trying to be a part of "a club" that doesn't want them. That is beyond mean. It is disgusting.


Wow black sheep. Sorry to get you so bent out of shape.
What I meant, as Dr Mom clearly understood, was that there are wonderful sincere people in this world who happen not to fit into the narrow view of what the "typical" Israeli charedi person should be, ie: frum since Adam and Chava with not a drop of Sephardic blood to mar that yichus.
Why should these people have to hide their past or even go so far as to change their Sephardic names to Ashkenazi sounding ones -- and this happens all the time-- to fit into someone else's narrow world view?
Why try so hard to fit in, changing yourself in the process, if you will never truly be accepted? Why not move to a community that will appreciate you and your heritage and value you and your heritage as they deserve to be valued.
And that's what I meant.
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EBY




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 1:36 pm
Just to clarify... Schools that receive funding from the Ministry of Education have a certain number of students sent to them. These are students who were not accepted to any school on the first try but they need to go somewhere. Sometimes the students themselves dont want to go to the schools they are assigned to. Every school has to take some students they would prefer not to but once they are in, everyone deserves a fair chance at education. There isn o reason to humiliate sensitive teens.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 11:11 pm
Atrocious behavior, totally unacceptable.

If there was a "strike", I find the timing to be extremely suspect, especially since the school knew in advance that these girls were going to be attending on a court order.

I am sick to death of hearing stories about Sephardim getting the short end of the stick. Moshiach NOW!!!
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sped




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 2:18 am
Just to pint out again, loads of girls are not accepted to the Yashan each year. It is one of the most popular seminars in Y-m, and they have lots of Sefardi girls, in fact. The whole story sounds weird. It is like going to court to insist your child be accepted to Harvard, because you want him/her to be.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 3:09 am
EBY wrote:
Just to clarify... Schools that receive funding from the Ministry of Education have a certain number of students sent to them. These are students who were not accepted to any school on the first try but they need to go somewhere. Sometimes the students themselves dont want to go to the schools they are assigned to. Every school has to take some students they would prefer not to but once they are in, everyone deserves a fair chance at education. There isn o reason to humiliate sensitive teens.
Are these schools actually under the Misrad HaChinuch? (I really don't know how it works). Our Ulpana (In Keumim) is actually the Misrad HaChinuch regional Dati Jr/High School - grades 7-12 - 900 girls. Every girl in the Shomron is entitled to go there. There are other options if you want (more or less religious, smaller school...) but this is the regional Mamlachti dati HS, and it's an Ulpana cause that's what the parents want in this area. The school has a very high religious level. But everyone is accepted. I remember hearing the principal speak when my daughter was entering 7th grade there. she explained that there are no entrance exams (everyone has to be accepted), only tests to help split up the classes based on ability (all the math geniouses together? or making a mix... I don't know) and see who will need extra help. But the principal said, Our school teaches our Hashkafa. Yes, some of the girls may come from traditional families but we are educators, not judges. We are hoping that with the guidance of our staff and the influence of the girls that are from Shomrei Mitzvot families (the majority there), we will help these traditional girls understand our way of life and join (and I know a lot do). They're here for an education. There's no secret that we're preaching a life of Torah. Anyone who comes thinking that they'll only learn secular subjects will leave on their own when they realize this isn't the place for them - Or they'll learn with an open mind and feel comfortable asking questions from their teachers and soon want to fit in with the stronger dati crowd. That's what school is about.
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 5:53 am
I believe EBY is correct. All government schools must accept a certain number of kids that werent accepted elsewhere.
This is regardless of how 'oversubscribed' they are. They need to save space for these kids.
Maybe thats the case here.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 6:50 am
Just had to tell a Sfardi Ashkenazi joke: LOL

"Slichot in Elul is the Ashkenazim's revenge for Kitnyot"

Rolling Laughter Rolling Laughter Rolling Laughter
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