Iriya gan scandal | Imamother

Sanguine

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 12:02 pm

amother wrote:

Exactly what I was thinking the past few days just didn't know how to say it. As believable as linen amother sounds, perhaps she, and R' Berkowitz and Shana are all part of an organized ring with a sinister goal to get all chareidim to leave the country? Sounds far-fetched? yeah, but so does the other version of this story.

I don't think it's specifically anti-Chereidi. The goal is to get any people to leave Yerushalayim so the real estate prices will go down. They just chose Chareidim cause they're easy targets cause they won't speak to the police or media (or each other).

amother wrote:

And btw, could I know where this 400 number is coming from? 400 children were abused and 3/4 of Israel never heard of anything? and the police are just ignoring?

Someone said 400 maybe 30 pages back. None of Israel has heard of anything. 3/4 of their own community has never heard of anything (till Imamother Wink

). The police and media... See what I just said a few lines above.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 12:24 pm

amother wrote:

But that's not the case in Israel. If the child is interviewed by a qualified and trained professional, for example a private therapist, the police will consider that evidence tampered with and invalidated.

Here in the US the same would happen. The McMartin cases really established the protocols for interviewing child victims of s-xual assault by trained professionals after the fact. MacFarlane, who interviewed the children, was suggestive and asked the children to speculate about what happened to them. Under oath, parents revealed suggestive conversations they had with their children about the purported events. No medical evidence was ever presented to support the claims of forceful penetration of the children. Videos documented the leading and suggestive nature of the interviews of children.

ETA: The McMartin trial also changed on how child victims testimony was presented in court. Post McMartin, videos of child interviews became the accepted method for providing court testimony. Children were no longer required to be present and testify in court.

Last edited by MagentaYenta on Wed, Sep 02 2015, 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

Sanguine

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 12:47 pm

smss wrote:

Anyone who could even joke that Rabbi Berkowitz would WANT Jews to leave Israel clearly does not know him at all.

I'm sure he doesn't want people to leave but he's causing them to leave by misusing his position by not publicizing everything and insisting that his followers know exactly how to go to the police, not him. He's for after they've reported directly to the police. He's acting like a Rabbi. Spiritual advice. That's great but he's not helping this get solved and stopped. Every person who comes to him with a story should be driven straight to the police before the say another word.

smss

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 1:13 pm

Sanguine wrote:

I reported your post. I'm sure you can find a more respectful way to express your lack of understanding (and actually, knowledge) of exactly what and how and why Rabbi Berkowitz is doing.

It's Elul.

ProudMommie

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 1:23 pm

smss wrote:

Anyone who could even joke that Rabbi Berkowitz would WANT Jews to leave Israel clearly does not know him at all.

Can we please NOT take things out of context and make a whole other debate about something that no one really said or meant...

Of course, the poster did NOT mean that Rabbi Berkowitz WANTS Yidden to leave E"Y Chas v' shalom!!!

I also did not mean that at all! And, no, he is not making them leave, Sanguine!

The previous poster was saying something OUTRAGEOUS to illustrate that the story of a cult, etc. etc. etc. is just as outrageous as saying that Rabbi Berkowitz shlita somehow wants yidden to leave E'Y.

Sanguine

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 1:35 pm

smss wrote:

I reported your post. I'm sure you can find a more respectful way to express your lack of understanding (and actually, knowledge) of exactly what and how and why Rabbi Berkowitz is doing.

It's Elul.

He's the only name I've heard as leading the flock. In March he said that he tried for 2 years but did a poor job and realizes that he's in over his head. He's obviously a well respected Rav and many people are looking to him for his leadership on this issue. So it's time for him to tell each person that comes to him that the police is the answer if they want this to end (and he has to arrange to take the people if they're afraid to go - maybe he has to personally go along with them). The other thing he has to do is make sure that the situation isn't a secret anymore. He's the leader. He has to take bold steps. The parents won't do anything on their own. They put their faith in him.

All my info comes from here, so if it's wrong...

Sanguine

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 4:18 pm

small bean wrote:

maybe he is also being threatened and therefore also working for the group... it doesnt make sense that for 2 years nobody could find out who it is.

I don't think he is but I don't believe the tremendous conspiracy theory where everyone is bribed, threatened or evil. The reason no one's been caught is cause 1- There haven't been as many cases as claimed here. 2 - No one's been seriously trying. To be serious you need professionals (like the police)

pause

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 4:40 pm

Sanguine wrote:

I agree with Mama Bear. It just sounds like you're not even reading their posts!!!

Mama Bear

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 5:58 pm

Linen has deleted many of her recent posts, which is a shame, because there was a lot of information, but I can understand why she felt leery leaving them up. on one of the earlier pages she wrote:

Quote:

The police have mountains and mountains of info that they are not doing anything about. We are all flabbergasted and appalled about this. So, there is a private international investigation going on to crack this thing. Unfortunately, this is big. It is not a few rebbes or morahs. Best case scenario, if you report your son's rebbe, they will arrest him [if that]. Great. These are middlemen that will be replaced the next day by another less-than-righteous desperately poor person. The investigators are working to crack it from the TOP down--to make the cult lose it's power. [snip]
~
This is how my son came home. I called his teacher who said he didn't know/see anything. I suspected the teacher. When I asked my son if the teacher did it, he said "no, he just brings some of the kids from my class out of the school to the bad people." hmm. More details followed [hundreds of pages recorded and videoed] as my son is very articulate. All the info was given over to police and investigators. This is not the appropriate forum for giving over the details, and I understand your frustration on wanting info. What you need to know is this: This is real. if you are in Jerusalem and not taking this seriously, your kids are at risk. If you want real info about people or places, you need to call the people involved, and those names have been circulated already. I don't think there is anything else needed to be said. Go ahead and tell me I am psychotic and a gullible idiot. At least I know my children are safe.

From this alone you can see that the police knows about this abuse. They are aware. Stop saying that no one is going to the police. They know about it. Police investigations take time to build up. They are probably still collecting evidence and figuring out a way to arrest the perps in a way that their case doesn't get dismissed and the perps go back underground. Or whatever. but the bottom line is, that people have gone to the police.

Sanguine

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 6:01 pm

pause wrote:

I agree with Mama Bear. It just sounds like you're not even reading their posts!!!

I read them but I'm still skeptical about the stories. One Rav has spoken with 400 parents. Did these 400 parents each go to the police or did they go to the Rav? and the big question - If 400 parents went to the police and they're not doing anything, why didn't these 400 parents go to the media? That would force the police to move. Now how many ganim are we talking about? 40 (probably even less)? So 10 kids in each gan was molested? 10 parents on different days came to tell the police? The police got 10 names about a gan and didn't do anything? They didn't even go to talk to the ganenet? The media would love a story like that. The media is the first place you go when you have a hot story. They'll go find out from the police why they're ignoring you. and they'd blast the story all over - if they believe you. They can't print a story without facts. so did any of those 400 parents think to go tell their story to the media and get the "corrupt" police to do their work. They each went to the police and the police took a report and left it there?

Sorry. I just don't get why nothing is happening. All these kids and there's not one hot-headed father who goes to the media when the police ignores him? I don't get it.

Sanguine

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 6:21 pm

Oh, one more question. So if 400 kids were abused and their parents know, what then? Do the parents just send them back to gan the next day? The kids happily go? These aren't drugged kids that forgot what happened. I assume the kids know if they told their parents and the 400 parents told the Rav (and police?). So the kids just happily go back to gan the next day? Hmmm, I guess these kids won't need too much therapy. But then the parents send them back into that gan where they were abused? I'm sure the parents stood watch outside the gan then. Ten parents outside every gan just watching? And there are mothers here that don't know anything about this? What do you think was going on outside of gan?

Or did those parents keep their kids home (seems the obvious thing to do with a child who was abused in gan). So the ganim are all half empty? No one realizes?

Sanguine

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 6:28 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

This^ Are all the cops in Israel corrupt? Do they always ignore reports of molestations?

No. All cops in Israel aren't corrupt. There might be some but the whole police force isn't filled with corrupt losers. We have a community police officer here cause we're not a big city. Nice guy. Comes if you call. Takes everything very seriously. That's his job. And if he ignored reports we would complain to his supervisor.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 6:38 pm

Sanguine wrote:

I like to think that cops are honorable people who do the right thing and I didn't mean to dis Israeli police. The comments here do indicate that some women feel that the police are part of the grand conspiracy as well. I do believe that all cities and nations have dirty cops. But from the tone of some of these posts it's as if the whole of the police force is ignoring molestation reports.

amother

Blue

Wed, Sep 02 2015, 6:39 pm

Sanguine wrote:

your like a broken tape recorder. you keep on repeating the same things after they have been answered. Stop ignoring what ppl are writing. Yes the head chiefs are corrupt and are in charge of all the policemen and the reports they have coming in. I'm glad you live in a little insular community with a bored policeman, maybe come see what city life is about.
And again if someone's child is abused they wouldn't send back to school! how stupid do you think these parents are? and get over the fact that men learn torah. The father's would do anything for their child to keep them safe. They are in it with their wife and child. Find something else to bash pls.