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Iriya gan scandal
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 7:50 pm
amother wrote:

And again if someone's child is abused they wouldn't send back to school! how stupid do you think these parents are? and get over the fact that men learn torah. The father's would do anything for their child to keep them safe. They are in it with their wife and child. Find something else to bash pls.


I don't think she's trying to say the parents are stupid. She's just saying that is there are 400 parents whether that's 200 couples or even more 400 different families, of course they wouldn't send the kids back. And their probably not only children. I imagine siblings would also be kept home. So over 400 kids are being kept home but no one has noticed or heard why? I think that's what she's wondering.
Unless that number that someone have was wrong. But in that case, it wouldn't be as widespread as people are making it out to be.
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5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 9:15 pm
amother wrote:

And again if someone's child is abused they wouldn't send back to school! how stupid do you think these parents are?


So hundreds of children are home from school now? What are the names of these unsafe schools? Surely you wouldn't endanger other children by letting them go to schools where they may be molested?
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amother
Copper


 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 11:40 pm
Quote:
So hundreds of children are home from school now? What are the names of these unsafe schools? Surely you wouldn't endanger other children by letting them go to schools where they may be molested?


Most people that have taken out have either moved away or switched to a different school. When I took my kid out of school because we were suspicious something was happening...no one thought twice. I gave a dumb excuse to whoever asked me why I took out my kid and that was that.

It's not so simple as you think. It's not like people from the school know each other. I would never know if someone took their kid out of school unless I'm they're close friend. I barely knew any other parents in the school and they didn't know me. So how would I know if 400 random kids from all over yerushalayim are taken out of school. I dont' know them.

Also, about saying the school names. It's also not so simple. I personally have told my close friends and a few other parents from the school that my kids school is NOT safe. Not ONE person took their kid out of school because I told them. (Until one had to after it was too late)

So you can scream the schools names from the rooftops.... but it won't make a dent.
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5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 11:54 pm
amother wrote:
Quote:
So hundreds of children are home from school now? What are the names of these unsafe schools? Surely you wouldn't endanger other children by letting them go to schools where they may be molested?


When I took my kid out of school because we were suspicious something was happening...no one thought twice. I gave a dumb excuse to whoever asked me why I took out my kid and that was that.

....

Also, about saying the school names. It's also not so simple. I personally have told my close friends and a few other parents from the school that my kids school is NOT safe. Not ONE person took their kid out of school because I told them. (Until one had to after it was too late)

So you can scream the schools names from the rooftops.... but it won't make a dent.


I am puzzled by your behavior. Why give a "dumb excuse" instead of telling people? And then why only tell a select few? You say that publicly naming the school won't work, but how could you know? You haven't tried.
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amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 12:06 am
"Why don't you announce to the world why you're taking your kid out of school?" I'd like to answer this question on behalf of these mothers. I have not been affected BH but know ppl who have been affected.
Imagine for a moment lo aleinu your child comes home every day more and more withdrawn and then one day begins to tell you about horrific abuse that was done to him day after day. Your first thought is self preservation. At the time you pull your child out of school, it may not yet be clear what happened to the child. You don't know if the removal from school is permanent. And the lastttt thing you are thinking about is activism, because you are just trying to keep the perps from getting to your kid more, and getting him the therapy, and making sure the siblings weren't affected, and making sure the affected one is not abusing the siblings. More than a full time job. Also, one might feqr the perps getting to them, as they have the child's address, especially if the abuse was done through the hasaa. So. AFTER you get your life together you can start to speak, AFTER you ensure your kids are safe. You don't have time and emotional energy to deal with the talking, the nonbelievers, the intruders, the helpful Yiddish mamas who have a million ideas for you... You just need to get your life together. I'm sorry but any of you would be the same.
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5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 12:20 am
Yes, I can see that in the midst of things, a parent might need to focus on the child and maintain privacy. But whatever happened, it was last year. Not to mention that this mother is anonymous. Honestly, it would be endangering other children not to name names.

Victims have nothing to be ashamed of. They are the only ones who know the identity of the abusers. Remaining silent enables the abuse to continue.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 12:38 am
I already told you that it doesn't make a difference if I would tell people or not. If even 1 parent would have pulled out of school because I told them something happened to my kid than I would definitely have told more people.
But as I already said, nobody did take out their kids.

I am repeating myself again... The other parents don't know me... why don't you understand?? It's still anonymous. If I, a random mother would call all the kids parents in my child's class they would still not listen to me, because they don't know me.

By now I do think that most of the parents from my childs school have heard something. Some have pulled out but most have stayed...

But anyway... another thing to think about is my kid. We can heal, and eventually live a normal life because barely anybody knows what happened. If I go an make an announcement, I risk 2 things. 1. I become the crazy lady that people accuse of having Maunchasen syndrome like one mother (accused) posted earlier in the blog... and still no one listens to me.
2. My child will be "the one that was abused" and everyone knowing about it. I can't imagine that would be helpful for healing.
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5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 1:06 am
Believe me, if I got a phone call or email from another mother in my kid's class that the school was unsafe, I'd be checking things out immediately. After first expressing sympathy and offering her whatever help I could.

Isn't that the normal response? Are you telling me that none of your peers would do that? It's hard to imagine that many parents in denial. It's one thing not to believe an anonymous poster on the internet, but a fellow parent in my child's class has automatic credibility.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 3:18 am
So Copper -- You feel that someone at this school committed a horrible crime which puts childrens' well-being in grave danger... but you won't report it and you won't warn other parents?

I hope the new school works out.

But if not, it may be because the last victim at the new school thought the same way you did.

Great way to make sure absolutely nothing changes.
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grace413




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 3:31 am
Has anybody considered contacting this organization?

http://www.children.org.il/pro.....ID=29
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 5:13 am
amother wrote:
I already told you that it doesn't make a difference if I would tell people or not. If even 1 parent would have pulled out of school because I told them something happened to my kid than I would definitely have told more people.
But as I already said, nobody did take out their kids.

I am repeating myself again... The other parents don't know me... why don't you understand?? It's still anonymous. If I, a random mother would call all the kids parents in my child's class they would still not listen to me, because they don't know me.

By now I do think that most of the parents from my childs school have heard something. Some have pulled out but most have stayed...

But anyway... another thing to think about is my kid. We can heal, and eventually live a normal life because barely anybody knows what happened. If I go an make an announcement, I risk 2 things. 1. I become the crazy lady that people accuse of having Maunchasen syndrome like one mother (accused) posted earlier in the blog... and still no one listens to me.
2. My child will be "the one that was abused" and everyone knowing about it. I can't imagine that would be helpful for healing.
I still don't get your rationale. Everyone knows that hindsight is 20/20 so let's look with what we know now. Ten kids were abused in every gan (see my 400/40 calculation). So now you realized that your child was abused. How come no one warned you? Where are the 10 previously abused kids? Switched ganim? Moved back to America? The main thing is that their mothers tell no one. Your child was abused cause 10 other victim's mothers kept their mouths shut? I would be strangling those other mothers, not giving them hugs. At wits end
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amother
Denim


 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 5:35 am
My son was molested a few years ago by the assistant principal of his cheder. I have posted about this a few times on this site. The morning after he told my husband, we were at mercaz hagana. The man was arrested. The very next thing we did was work with the organization in our neighborhood (they've been mentioned on this thread) that helps abuse victims and families and they immediately arranged a meeting of a group of parents in the school to tell them what was going on. They did it for us and we remained anonymous. Did some people figure it out? maybe. So what?

The school did manage to spin the story and only 1 family took their kids out. Many of them didn't believe it at all even though he was under house arrest for almost a year, and their kids may not have gotten needed therapy but that wasn't part of our cheshbon. We can look ourselves in the mirror and know that we did all we could to let other parents know. What they did after that was up to them.

I am not condemning anybody. Just giving over my experience which may be different than what people assume would happen. Nothing happened to us for coming forward and knowing that we did the right thing has helped *us* a lot over the years.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 6:41 am
amother wrote:
My son was molested a few years ago by the assistant principal of his cheder. I have posted about this a few times on this site. The morning after he told my husband, we were at mercaz hagana. The man was arrested. The very next thing we did was work with the organization in our neighborhood (they've been mentioned on this thread) that helps abuse victims and families and they immediately arranged a meeting of a group of parents in the school to tell them what was going on. They did it for us and we remained anonymous. Did some people figure it out? maybe. So what?

The school did manage to spin the story and only 1 family took their kids out. Many of them didn't believe it at all even though he was under house arrest for almost a year, and their kids may not have gotten needed therapy but that wasn't part of our cheshbon. We can look ourselves in the mirror and know that we did all we could to let other parents know. What they did after that was up to them.

I am not condemning anybody. Just giving over my experience which may be different than what people assume would happen. Nothing happened to us for coming forward and knowing that we did the right thing has helped *us* a lot over the years.
Thumbs Up I'm sure you saved some other kids just by putting the idea in the parent's heads and letting this teacher know that his secret is out and he's being watched forever. Maybe you wanted the guy dead, but you really showed your son that no one is a helpless victim when they choose to take control. I'm sure that feeling is helpful in your son's and yours healing
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amother
Copper


 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 10:08 am
If you would hear the replies I got from the other parents that we spoke to than you wouldn't either go and tell everyone.

"don't worry, it won't happen to my kid bec xyz"
"I'm in denial about this story"
"rabbi x says its okay to send to the school"
"we're speaking to rabbi y and we're listening to what he says" (which btw he did not know about this story at that time)
"my wife and I both work so we can't take our kid out of school"

Not one person took their kid out!!!!!!!!!! helllooooooooo..... stop telling me it would be different if I told everyone. It wouldn't.
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Shuly




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 12:11 pm
I would take my kid out if I knew which school it was.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 12:34 pm
amother wrote:
If you would hear the replies I got from the other parents that we spoke to than you wouldn't either go and tell everyone.

"don't worry, it won't happen to my kid bec xyz"
"I'm in denial about this story"
"rabbi x says its okay to send to the school"
"we're speaking to rabbi y and we're listening to what he says" (which btw he did not know about this story at that time)
"my wife and I both work so we can't take our kid out of school"

Not one person took their kid out!!!!!!!!!! helllooooooooo..... stop telling me it would be different if I told everyone. It wouldn't.


I could have written this post. Trying to tell parents, and hearing their reactions (or should I say non reactions), was one of the hardest parts of this whole thing.
One wished me hatzlacha and hung up.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 12:48 pm
So no one believes you even with 400 cases in town. 400 parents are keeping their secret all thinking they're the only one? Well what about the Rabbeim who are hearing first hand from parents? (Did you speak to one?) He believes you? He believes 400 parents? But he thinks it's best to keep it a secret? Do you know why?
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 12:50 pm
If the other mothers would have gotten calls from a other mothers who had this happen to their child then their reaction might have been different. I am not saying it is your responsibility, but don't say that you are not publicizing because you know the other mothers won't do anything about it. You can only do your part, and if everyone did their part then maybe something will be done.
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amother
Blue


 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 1:07 pm
amother wrote:
I could have written this post. Trying to tell parents, and hearing their reactions (or should I say non reactions), was one of the hardest parts of this whole thing.
One wished me hatzlacha and hung up.


Yes same here! After I told many parents what happened to my child, they were in denial or had the exact reactions written above. and some were even good friends. It was really painful and saddening for me. I really want to protect their children.
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amother
Blue


 

Post Thu, Sep 03 2015, 1:08 pm
ok and everyone is so stuck up about this 400 parents etc. Can someone involved say if they were there and part of them or just heard? I have never heard such a thing and they don't stop obsessing with it on this thread instead of looking at other details.
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