Good sleepers: born or made?

amother

Periwinkle

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 7:38 pm

For those of you who have had a young baby (4 months or younger) sleep through the night, did the baby so it on their own or did you teach them somehow?
And for context can you please answer some follow up questions?
1) breast/bottle/both?
2) define sleeping through the night
3) how did you coordinate baby's skeep needs with other kids (eg nap in the morning with carpool etc)
4) at what age did this start?
5) tummy/side/back? (Be honest!)
6) HOW DID YOU DO IT?!? Please give step by step instructions, with bedtimes, feeding/waking times and everything!

Is there some great secret that I'm missing?

anon because I'm embarrassed...are my kids naturally bad nighttime sleepers or is it something I'm doing...
(For reference: current baby almost 3 months, is ebf, napping nicely during the day so is not overtired, can go to sleep from drowsy but awake independently and has a good long stretch at the beginning of the night (5hrs usually) but wakes up just as I'm ready to go to bed and them every 2-3 hrs, sometimes not settling back so sleep easily after a 4 am feed, until 6/7am at which point I have to be up with my family's morning routine anyways. I'm BEAT and I desperately need that second half of the night to be one long stretch after a midnight feed)

amother

Seafoam

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 8:09 pm

I only have 2 so far, does my opinion count? I love discussing this topic!

So when I only had one, I thought for sure, babies who sleep well are taught how to do it. Its something they need to learn and its on the parent to teach them.
then my second one came along, and I realized A LOT of sleep problems have to do with babies personalities (and parents IMHO)
so to go through your question
my first DD -Breast Fed-slept through the night (7 am to 7 pm) starting 6 months old.-on her back (promise!) and how did it do it? I was neurotic about it!! I didn't work at the time, I kept her on a very good feeding/sleeping schedule, I read Baby Whisperer, and really took to it. I revolved my day around her naps, which had to be in her crib! . Starting at 4 months old, I used to feed her in bulk (recommended by the book!) every hour starting at 5pm, and then have a our nighttime routine, and I wouldn't change a step of it. I was ocd about doing the exact same thing every single night. she was also addicted to her paci. (she also never used me as a pacifier type thing)
then my second DD came along (13 months later!) and it was a total different experience. I nursed again, but she didn't learn to sleep through the night (7 am to 7pm) without eating until she was 1 years old. She loooved to nurse, was a much kvetchier baby, she needed to be tightly swaddled until she was 7 months old, I wasn't as rigorous about her schedule bc I obviously couldn't be with a toddler also. so she would take erratic naps here and there in the stroller/car seat/ bouncer.
and then when I started weaning her at 12 months, she started to sleep through the night.
thats my experience.

sbil

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 8:10 pm

mine still wakes up and she is 2 so I may not be the right candidate to answer your questions. When she was a baby I nursed on demand and she basically slept with me the whole night if she slept in her crib she would wake up every 2 hours. As long as she was next to me she slept, I was even able to take shabbos naps this way. I have a friend whose son slept through the night from birth. I would say they are born that way but some people believe in training babies to sleep.

amother

Periwinkle

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 9:21 pm

Thank for the responses.
I just feel duped. I make sure baby never gets overtired, nurse on demand during daytime hours to ensure full feeds, put to bed drowsy but awake etc and we're still not sleeping as much as I'd like. I know it's normal for an almost three month old and that's still so so sooo young and gam ze yaavor but I'd still for once love to have one of those babies who just has the whole sleeping thig figured out! I can hardly believe it when people tell me about babies who sleep so amazingly so young!

I don not manage well with insufficient sleep, but I am very good at making it look like I have it all under control so even when baby was brand new I had no offers from family for meals etc. little do they know how hard it truly is for me.

I don't want to sleep train again (it's hard but worth it - not debating CIO/sleep training here) and Davening that conscientiousness and following the "good sleeper rules" etc will pay off and one night I'll be surprised when my toddler wakes me up in the morning and we've all slept thru!

forever21

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 9:24 pm

Volunteer, what does your dr mean by "legitimately waking up to nurse?" I've heard from many ppl that say babies wake up to nurse out of habit and not necessarily out of hunger, they use breastfeeding as a way to fall back asleep. (Of course I'm not talking about babies who are only a few months old, they very much need the night feedings).
Op, to answer your question: I truly believe it's a baby's personality more than anything . One of my babies was impossible when it came to sleeping and the others slept well, barely waking up and when they did they went right back to sleep.

amother

Pumpkin

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 9:43 pm

personality.

DS1 woke every 3 hours from newborn till 12mo when I night weaned him. he would nurse and go right back to sleep between 8pm and 8am from the time he was 3-4mo. he ended up cosleeping with me so I didnt have to get up so many times.

DS2 gave me a 4-5 hour stretch in the first half of the night once he was a few months old, and then woke every 2-2.5 hours. we also coslept. at around a year he started doing better at nights.

DD1 is 3mo. She is insane (in a very good way, bli ayin hara). from about 2 weeks she gave me 5-6 hour stretches starting at midnight. a couple weeks ago (2.5mo) she went to a 7-9 hour stretch from 10/10:30. we cosleep but dont really have to since I generally dont hear from her till im up with my boys already!

I did on demand with all 3 kids and this is just how it worked out...

amother

Denim

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:01 pm

I have a few kids, some ebf, only formula only and a few mixed, I have kids that slept amazingly from a very young age and some that didn't sleep until they were toddlers. It didn't make a difference how they were fed, for me the difference is the kids nature. My kids who didn't sleep well have more difficult natures in general.
I have had extremely easy babies to babies that barely slept two hours at a time and the time they did sleep had to be held the whole time.

I think part of it is sensory, my kids who didn't sleep well, needed to be held more, were cranky kids had sensory issues that interfered with their daily functioning. Just my personal experience.

Volunteer

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:02 pm

forever21 wrote:

Good question. I think my baby really does need the milk because he's a frequent nurser during the day, too. Also, when he wakes up, he looks and acts just like he does when he's hungry, not when he just wants to be held. Often his fontanelle feels a little sunken in, which means his fluids are low. I've tried just soothing him to get him back to sleep, but even though he can fall back asleep without nursing, he just awakes again in a few minu, because he's still hungry . Those signs lead me to believe he actually does need the milk.

Eta: He's also "undersized" and he never nurses when he's not hungry during the day either.

Last edited by Volunteer on Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

Laiya

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:15 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Mine slept through the night naturally. She was BF. When she was waking for night time feedings he father would get her from the bedside cradle apply her to my body for feeding, burp, change her and have some playtime while I blissfully slept through it all.

This doesn't sound like sleeping through the night?

dr. pepper

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:47 pm

I think it's a combo of nature and nurture...with a greater emphasis on nature.

That being said, I simply cannot function without sleep.
I read and followed "the baby whisperer" as well as "healthy sleep, happy baby (or child?)"

With four children, some responded quicker than others.

I breast fed all for at least a year. However, I kept up one bottle a day to ensure they could at least take it. And I would often have my husband do the middle of the night feeding to give me a longer stretch every few nights.

My definition of sleep in the immediate sense, is going back to sleep immediately following a feeding at night.

My philosophy is that I am the adult, I am the mommy and I know whats best. I am in charge. I set the schedule.
I think of night for a 12 hour period of time.
For example, 7 to 7.
So for 1/2 before bed time, we did a routine of bath, pj's and quiet feeding before the crib.
Then, I would wake of the baby 2 hours later and again 2 hrs later and super quietly, with the lights off, feed them.
Then at 11, I would make sure to be in bed and not wake the baby.

Babies will naturally take a stretch. I tried to train the baby to get that stretch when I was sleeping.

At the point where I felt I needed a longer strech (6 hrs or more), I would beg Hashem for a sign and let me baby do a night like that once. Then I'd have the confidence to let them cry it out.
It has worked 4 times Very Happy

When that time was depended on the child and what was going on in my life.
Eg. going back to work full time after 7 weeks vs. first baby and in college twice a week.

Good luck!!!!

21young

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:53 pm

I have 2 kids, my first I was able to sleep train very easily, and the 2nd was very difficult, but I did it with both. I strongly believe that different babies have different personalities, but unless there is something really wrong such as reflux, colic, etc., any baby can be sleep trained. I did a combination of bottles and BF, and I needed them to sleep because I went back to work full time right away.

My pediatrician says that at 3 months babies can give a 6-hour stretch, if they wake up it's out of habit, not hunger. I started out aiming for a 6-hour stretch, and slowly increased it as the baby got used to sleeping at night. Here is what I did, step by step:

Decide on a bedtime and stick to it, do the same time every night. Give as much as possible at the last feeding so that the baby is full. Then give a warm bath, and in a darkened room, give the baby some cuddle time. Swaddle tightly (I swaddled until the baby was old enough to kick out of it), and lay the baby down on his back in a crib with a pacifier, and a warm, heavy blanket draped on top of the swaddling blanket, but low down, away from the face, so it’s not a hazard to breathing. If your baby has a hard time sleeping in the crib put a rolled up towel under the mattress to elevate the baby’s head. Turn on the mobile.

Here’s the hard part: If/when the baby cries, do NOT take him out or give him a bottle. You can gently pat his back, turn him on his side, sing to him, give him his paci, or take him out just to re-swaddle, but do not give him that bottle. If he is really inconsolable you can take him out and rock him in your arms, but no bottle. Keep reminding yourself that he is not hungry, this is just a habit that he has to break.

It can be really hard, I slept way less during sleep training than on a regular night waking for feedings, but if you are consistent it absolutely works! Good luck!

amother

Brown

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 11:02 pm

I breast fed my babies and they always gained but slowly.
I found that once I introduced solids and they started eating regularly in addition to liquids that's when they gained beautifully and also started sleeping through the night for a solid 9-12 hours.

but it came with a need for sleep training. also depended on where we lived at the time, if we had room so one child didn't wake the other...

amother

Mauve

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 11:42 pm

I think it's a combination of both. Breastfed babies seem to wake up more, but I think it really also depends on the baby's nature. My son refused a pacifier and a bottle no matter how hard we tried, and he was (and still is, at three yrs old) a TERRIBLE sleeper. Didn't sleep through the night till about 18 mths, and was always up at the crack of dawn after that. At first I thought it must be something I was doing, but then I saw my sister in law's babies start sleeping through the night naturally on their own, and I don't think she did anything so different than I did. I do believe there are things you can do to improve their sleep schedule, but ultimately the baby's nature plays a big role too. You could do everything "right" and still have a bad sleeper, and you can break all the "rules" and have a great sleeper.

PassionFruit

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 4:59 pm

I have two kids.
Kid number one: NEVER slept through the night [or more than 45 min straight] without having to be nursed back to sleep. He was up literally every hour until he was ten months old. By that point, he started sleeping for three hour stretches, but naps were never more than 45 minutes. We sleep trained him with a professional THREE TIMES--at 9 months, at 12 months, and at 18 months. That was the baby whisperer method, weisbluth method, and ferber method. All three times, the trainer told us don't worry, MAXIMUM this will be a month, but we've never had a kid cry more than 2.5 weeks. Everyone told me "He started sleeping through the night [meaning 12 hours] when he turned four. Before that, he was literally up twice a night. He slept on his back until he could roll over [three months] and then on his tummy.
Kid number two: was on a scheduled from birth [only woke up to nurse once or twice a night and then went to bed, and napped every 3 hours] By four months slept 12 hours at night, and had two predictable naps during the day. I haven't had any surprise problems, and he is now 15 months.

My theory is that sleeping is almost 100% genetically pre-programmed and there isn't much you can change about it. I strongly regret sleep training my big boy because there were so much pointless screaming that probably did some emotional damage. I couldn't handle it, he couldn't handle it, and at the end of the day it did absolutely nothing.

Kids need love and security. They also need sleep. But if it is done in a traumatic way, it does not accomplish anything in the long run.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 5:28 pm

Pffft! That's normal baby behavior.

DD had colic for the first 4 months, so she didn't sleep, she SCREAMED all night long. She slept in short naps between nursing all day long. Good times. Confused

She's 12 now, and is a super light sleeper, always two seconds from being wide awake. She's been that way her whole life. She needs 2mg of melatonin to fall asleep, and G-d help you if a pin drops and wakes her up. shock

amazingmommy

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 5:44 pm

I believe it's nature in addition to the parents actions. I nurse On demand, after the (around) 8:00 feeding, which I make sure to do in a dark room, put him on his stomach, cover him, and pat him to sleep. I wake him up at about 11 to feed him, and then he goes back to sleep till about 6 ish, I feed him and he goes back to sleep for another 2 hours about. I never let him cry on his own. I started off putting him to sleep in my hands for a few weeks, or my husband, and eventually he learned it's bedtime and bh, baby used to fall asleep 3!!! O'clock in the Morning, and now at about 9