In reference to the email

sourstix

Thu, Sep 10 2015, 10:12 pm

the email that someone here got about how rabbonim are the cause of the problem. I also come from brooklyn and lived there till recently. every word he/she wrote is so true. I can almost write that whole letter to the t. the pain in that letter is so deep. only someone that has lived that life and between those people can understand all of it. I dont agree its all of rabbonims fault but they have a hand in so much in what the email writer is talking about. unfortunatley my experience makes me believe this writer. I am surprised so many people here didnt get it. I am not saying it was respectful, it surely wasnt. but if you live with so much hypocricy that I have been living with you would feel the same. I guess I am happy I am not part of it so much anymore. I am sure that rabbonim do a lot. but the stuff they do is downright despicable. they will pay a price for the pain they are causing. directly and indirectly. we believe hashem has a plan. and no person suffers only if hashem allows it. and we know that we need a tikun. so the best I can say is 'yesh din veyesh dayin' . noone gets away with this stuff forever. and those that are rabbonim that are appointed as rav that too was the will of hashem. I most certainly didnt choose them. everything has a reason. I just dont understand it. I just need to do the best I can. and be the best I can be. just cause he is a rav doesnt mean he is g-d, or the most pious, or aveira free. he aint no angel. follow what the torah says and do the best you can. pray pray pray. thats all I can say.

black sheep

Thu, Sep 10 2015, 10:33 pm

I didn't get a chance to post before it was locked, but I was also surprised by the responses. posters were focusing on the grammar, on how respectful it was, picking on the externals of the email. even while some said they agreed with the content, they said, "how can you say something so disrespectful." then, ironically, other posters said, "well why do you follow them?" the most interesting part is that the posts highlight the problem, no one can ever complain about the rebbes/rabbanim, so the rebbes/rabbanim get away with anything. of course, some are good, but unfortunately many are not good, and chas veshalom if you ever complain!

I think people are scared to admit they agree with the letter, or it makes them uncomfortable, so they complain instead about silly things like the grammar and how anyone has a right to say something disrespectful.

if you are completely satisfied with the frum world, and think there is no room for improvement, then go on about your day. but if you want to see some change, it's time to get a little disrespectful.

cnc

Thu, Sep 10 2015, 10:38 pm

I absolutely understand the letter writer's point of view. I BH have never experienced such behavior first hand, but I know people that have.

I just found the thread title and description of the letter really ironic.
As I mentioned in the other thread, the letter was anything BUT beautifully written and respectful.
Since those descriptions were in the title, it sort of struck me and that's why I reacted the way I did. It was instinct.

Notsobusy

Thu, Sep 10 2015, 10:57 pm

sourstix wrote:

and those that are rabbonim that are appointed as rav that too was the will of hashem. I most certainly didnt choose them.

Sourstix, I think the reason why most of us don't get it, is because we do choose our rav. I believe it's only by chassidim that their father's rebbe is almost automatically their rebbe. Most other frum people choose their own rav.

happybeingamom

Thu, Sep 10 2015, 11:00 pm

It is not a question of getting it.

People have a choice to pick their Rav and even Rebbe. It might not be a comfortable choice but it can be done. If it is a Chasidus that your family will be horrified if you are not part of it. Just be absent quietly.

The school issue is a community issue not a Rabbonim issue. Right now we as a community don't care enough.

If the parents would get together and do something, things can change, but the people who are not hurt don't care enough.

We can't spend our lives blaming Rabbonim, Askonim etc. We ourselves should do something.

imasoftov

Fri, Sep 11 2015, 3:44 am

I found it hard to figure out what his issue was. It reminded me of those posters you see on the walls of Jerusalem in haredi neighborhoods where you can tell the person who wrote it is upset, and you know the sort of things previous posters have been about so it's probably one of those, but you're not sure which. But the same goes for some original posts here, too.

It was only about a third of the way through that he finally said "schools", up to that point he could have been writing about anything at all. He did start with that his children have been through "the system", but at the point he could have meant shidduchim. Or maybe trying to live on a kollel stipend. Then he jumped between issues, batei din, hashgachot (what his complaint is there, he didn't specify), drashot, back to schools, rabbis fighting. I may have missed some.

Even if the people who write one very long paragraph have had very little secular education, they've still have come across parshiot petuchot and stumot in Chumash, but maybe since their copies just have the letters Peh and Samech instead of space between parshiot.

Perhaps he learned to organize his thoughts from a page of gemara. No breaks, jumping from topic to topic, returning to an earlier topic. Maybe it could have benefited from being surrounded by several commentaries, so when he says "How about the hashgochos?" we could find out what his issue is there. Or maybe each commentary would give a different reason, Rashi would say overcharging, Tosafos would include one opinion that it's about kickbacks from mashgichim to get their jobs and another about bugs in the bug-free lettuce.

At least he used some punctuation marks and sometimes capitalized the start of a sentence.