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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
Panicked. Don't want my DD to be a "mean girl"



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amother
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Post Thu, Sep 10 2015, 11:02 pm
I need some parenting advice. Sorry if this is a long post...

My daughter is in first grade. She's a nice girl and I have never witnessed her being mean to another child (and I watch closely). She's always nice and inclusive and friendly. But I've also noticed that she craves the attention of and friendship of the cliquey and more popular girls in her school (she attended two years of kindergarten there). She wants nothing more than to be friends with the popular girls.

A bit of background. I was mercilessly ostracized as a kid. I was never a popular kid and bullied throughout my entire school career. Even as a child, I swore to myself that my own kids would never ever be mean to anyone else.

Since my daughter has been a toddler, I've read her stories about being kind to other kids. We've spoken about children's tendencies to want to develop cliques and groups that exclude other kids, and we've talked about how it's wrong and how we need to guard people's feelings very closely. I've been so conscious of trying to ensure she understands how terrible it is to be mean to any child and how it's her duty to make sure that kids aren't excluded or bullied.
We even put on puppet shows together about including everyone and spreading kindness. Yes, I'm totally obsessed.

Anyways, today my daughter came home and I asked her what she did at school. She immediately launched into an excited discussion about how two other girls (who are known to be the more popular girls in the class) created a club with her and another girl. I immediately froze and felt paralyzed. I asked her "Is this the kind of club that doesn't allow all the kids in to play?" and she looked away kind of guiltily and said "I'm not the leader of the club. I don't make the rules. Dina (not real name) is the leader and she makes the rules". So I asked her "Well, what if Esther wants to be in the club. Would she be allowed?" and my daughter said "I don't know. Dina is the one who makes the rules and she said that only four girls were allowed in our club".

I KNOW 100% that I am projecting my childhood traumas onto my daughter, but I also want to believe that I would 100% oppose such behaviour even if I hadn't been tortured by my peers.

I told my daughter "I do not want you to be part of an exclusionary club. I don't want to hear that you're in a club that refused others participation". She kept going back to the argument that she wasn't the leader, but I finally said "if you're part of the club, then you're just as responsible for people's hurt feelings". She began to sob.

I told her "as long as the club isn't excluding kids, you can be part of it and have fun, but as soon as it becomes a mean girls club, I would like for you to leave it". She wailed "I'm QUITTING!!". So I explained to her again that she needn't leave the club so long as everyone was being nice and including all the friends", but she kept saying "But you said I couldn't be part of it if it's a mean girls club" and I kept replying "Right, so as long as it's not mean, you can continue to be part of it". Finally, she hysterically cried to me and said "I just know it's going to be a mean girls club one day....but I still want to be part of it!".

I don't know how to navigate this. Part of me thinks that maybe I'm being an idiot and she's 6 and it's silly. But another part of me is terrified that this is the beginning of something terrible...of years of mean girl behaviour. I never wanted my daughter to be a 'nebbish' case like me, but I'm equally terrified of her becoming a popular, mean girl. I thought I'd worked so hard to install these values into her, and I actually still think that, left to her own devices, she would be a very kind kid. I just see her desire to be part of the popular group, and I think she can't really help herself at this age.

I need some advice here...

PS. The good news was that after the big blow up, my daughter cried and said that she wanted to be alone. After 10 minutes by herself, I found her in the basement playing happily. I asked her to join us for supper (my DH is out of town) and she happily complied. It was as if nothing had happened (until my younger DD (4) had a sneaky glint in her eye and asked during dinner "could we talk about that club thing again?"...Anyways, my DD went to bed happy and we didn't discuss it anymore.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 10 2015, 11:09 pm
It sounds fine.

Your daughter will occasionally be a mean girl.

I wonder if anybody ever was not once a mean girl.

You can't perfect the world.

She will learn what she sees, and this is an issue for you. Your painful memories may read to her as "be very sure to be with the in-club, because mom says it's pure heck, if you are not". It doesn't matter if you never said that, they read minds.

I wouldn't worry about it.

If you model kindness and respect for people's various qualities, and what it means to be a decent person and a lady, she will get the point. If you ever see anything egregious, put a stop to it. If you see her idolizing a girl you don't think much of, say so.

Your younger one is political too. It's life. Enforce proper ladylike attitudes from above, without getting down too granular into their fussings. They have to work it out for themselves.

A main point is that YOU love them, no matter what. Other people's disdain will mean a lot less because it's your love that counts.

But make very sure your love is high-value, by being chic, coiffed and secure yourself. That is attitude, not money.

You are the flagpole. If your flag flies high, theirs will too. They will be watching very carefully how you act around others. Around women fancier than you, dignified. Around women in a worse position than you, gracious.

Pick your battles carefully. You can't micromanage, so reserve your clout for when it's really needed. Occasionally, it will be.

I think you made your point, and it's a good point.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 10 2015, 11:32 pm
Dolly is wise.

The two most important things you can do to prevent mean-girl-itis are:

a) role model kindness and sensitivity, and be sure to think out loud ("oh, there's Mrs X on crutches. I will be extra careful to say hello, and see that she can getup those steps." "Let's invite Y over for a meal. I saw her sitting alon at kiddush.").

And b) remember that the disease usually stems from insecurity. Speaking your piece was fine. But now, back away, and look for opportunities to praise DD for her kindness, thoughtfulness, and inclusion. Let her know that you already think of her as a fine human being. If she has your warm approval every day, she may be less likely to seek approval from peers by doing something that is against the values that you have worked so hard for her to internalize.

When she does flirt with her power to wound, let her experience the natural consequences from her peers. If necessay, seek counseling to come to terms with your own painful past, so that you don't try to heal yourself by forcng her to act as you wish. A little exclusivity in first grade is very, very different from that of older kids or teens.

You could also arrange fun playdates with some of the less popular girls, so that she will be less likely to want to exclude them.
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OutATowner




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 10 2015, 11:32 pm
While I understand where you are coming from, you have to calm down. For your sake and your daughter's. Believe me when I tell you I have similar fears and parenting styles. But any extreme will ultimately backfire. This is extreme.

These 6 year old clubs usually last 2 days and three girls have more fun talking about it then actually doing anything.
If your dd said "we go around and tell people we can't play/talk with certain kids not in the club", I would worry.
And I may be of base, but do you think her desire to be part of the popular crowd is something she absorbed from your talks? You sound like a really great mother, but sometimes we have to take a step back and see if we are projecting our own childhood fears on our children.
Hatzlacha, and please forgive me if I have offended you.
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rowo




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 10 2015, 11:40 pm
Maybe you should go speak to an expert in child development to gain an understanding of what's normal at that age, and to learn how to present the ideas in way that's beneficial to your daughter.
At this age things change from day to day.
One day girl A brings her new pens and the three people sitting at her table join her at recess for the sparkly pen club and draw little pictures. But three days later girl B brings her skipping rope and the few girls standing with her when they wash their hands are the skipping club for that day.
My 6 yo dd is sometimes included in these groups, sometimes not, sometimes initiates etc Through experience they learn what it's like on all sides of the picture.
Monitor it over time, if you feel it's getting nasty and unpleasant then maybe get involved.
But it sounds like your daughter just had a fun time at recess and wanted to share it with you.
There's no need to stop the discussions abt inclusion and thinking about others. But I wouldn't stress at this point
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 11 2015, 9:22 am
children do need to be able to have some form of exclusive friendships, op. they shouldn't be mean, but they need to be able to set up their own boundaries too. if one kid in the class took pride in annoying your daughter, would you force your daughter to play with her so as not to exclude her? don't think this doesn't happen. if your only focus is not excluding other kids, your child will never learn to value her own peace of mind. some games are set up for a maximum of four players. is she not allowed to play those in school during recess?

I really think you need help with this, op. it sounds like your discussions are going to traumatize your daughter. she started crying because you told her she's not allowed to have these friends to herself at certain times. she told you something she was excited about, and you squashed that excitement pretty cruelly. how about, "I'm glad you're part of a fun club. maybe you can start some other fun clubs with other girls too. I bet all the girls want to be club members."
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 11 2015, 9:30 am
OP, you really need to see a therapist and deal with your own childhood issues. It is SO unfair to project them on a young child who looks up to you!

Your DD seems very aware, kind, and sweet. She knows right from wrong, and will be just fine. Part of learning how to navigate the social world is to have conflicts between peers, and then learn how to resolve them. You can't be best friends with every personality type in the world. That's just not realistic.

Give DD some space, and let her sort it out for herself. If you smother her with your own fear, she'll never learn, and all she'll know is fear. If she comes to you for help, try to stay neutral, and empower her to express herself without worrying about upsetting you.

What you are doing right now is NOT healthy or normal.
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Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 11 2015, 9:48 am
I agree with what the other posters have written. Six is really too young to be talking about "cliques".

I'd probably have a talk with my child about not making others feel bad, and whether these girls are really the ones she wants to be friends with.

If it were me, I'd have the girls over and decide whether these friendships are worth encouraging or discouraging. Even if the girls aren't bullying others or mean per se, they do sound a bit bossy.

But that doesn't mean that they don't have good middos. Only you can decide if you like these girls as friends for your daughter.

Then again, there's the personality issue. It could be that your daughter is naturally a "follower" and will always gravitate toward friendships with kids who have strong personalities. If that's the case, then throughout her school years you'll want to keep tabs on who her friends are.

I'd also suggest working on building her self-confidence as much as you can, whether through therapy, confidence building classes, extra-curricular activities, etc. (With 1 of my kids, we gave him karate lessons and the affects on his overall self-confidence were amazing.)


Last edited by Laiya on Fri, Sep 11 2015, 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 11 2015, 9:51 am
I agree with Franticfrummy. You are creating more damage then good here.

Because of your childhood trauma you make her feel like she betrayed you, like she is evil, and that the end of the world occurred when she is just doing normal social behavior.

I would be very happy if my daughter told me she is part of a club in kindergarden. That would mean she is socially accepted, and free enough to navigate in the class socially.

Separately I would reinforce kindness. By telling her stories, noticing when she is kind and role modeling it for her as well.

Trauma has a way of being passed down one generation to the next. Somehow you got reay really hurt socially as a child. That hurt is now hurting your child. She is surely traumatized by your overreaction. The fact that she looked completely fine later in the day is no indication that she wasn't shell shocked somewhere in her brain.

I am saying this as a survivor of trauma myself. Having seen how my trauma affected my oldest child. And understanding the importance of prevention!

Go for therapy. Don't work this out through her. She deserves a life of her own.
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 11 2015, 1:11 pm
Of course you want your daughter to be kind and not a bully, but you need to be careful.
It's a fine line between projecting your past on your daughter, vs teaching her good middos.
Additionally, your dd might well be very nervous about not being part of a club, bec she learnt how terrible it is to be excludef.
So, you might be teaching her the opposite of what you want.
Please, talk to someone irl who can guide you. A mentor, therapist. Parenting expert.
Good luck!
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Bruria




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 11 2015, 4:11 pm
First I would like to tell you that you are amazing for teaching your daughter so well. Nowadays unfortunately it's rare to see parents involved like you are, that genuinely care about how their children will treat others.
Keep up the good work! I would only advise you to perhaps use a more gentle approach to the club topic because she is so young, but it's admirable what you are doing and if more parents were like you and taught there children to be nice to each other the world would be a better place for sure!
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professor




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 11 2015, 6:18 pm
tell her stories. its a gGREAT way to discuss things with your kids. you can find books about kids who are mean, you can tell her your own story, or just nmake one up. after the story you can get into a whole phylosophical discussion. it works every time
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