Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette
I must vent. Thanks



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
Lime


 

Post Sun, Sep 20 2015, 8:38 pm
People are so silly. Senseless. Story is this. Dh works crazy hours. Over 12 hours daily and is constantly connected emotionally with his job. I'm not going in details but people should realize that overworked doesn't necessarily mean over payed . We don't struggle financially but live day to day. We do have lots of unpaid balances all over and can't afford to finance all unemployed men. What brought me here to vent is that now bien hazmanem Dh works every weekday. That means every erev tom till almost the zman. Now, those beggers sit around our house waiting for Dh to come home so they can ask for money. When dh finds them after a hardworking day he just wants to get rid of them so he gives them some cash or they would be keeping him up and try to persuade him to finance their whole yeshiva. Today I was coming home the time dh usually comes home and I spotted two men knocking on our doorstep. Then there was someone in a car coming out when I came home. They all asked when dh will be home. I answered probably soon so they just continued waiting. Are they normal? Why does dh have to come home to this? And why do people not understand that if he gave once he is not their bank account monthly? And why do people waste their time waiting for charity? Don't they have a family? Do they really think dh is a millionaire? Thanks for letting me vent.

Oh, and if your boys don't have what to do on bien hazmanim let them paint the succa blue and not come knocking on my door for tzaduka while I'm busy preparing for tom TV. Thanks.
Back to top

rising hero




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 20 2015, 8:59 pm
I would tell these people that my husband is not coming home yet. Then they would hopefully leave. If you're not comfortable saying that, you can say he's coming soon but it is not a good time so come back at a better time, call, leave a message etc.
Back to top

mirror




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 20 2015, 9:18 pm
I hate to say this, but it's your dh's fault. If he stops giving them money, they will stop coming. Please speak to your dh that you want to write up a list of Tzedakos and individuals that you would like to give your ma'aser money to. Then when the meshulachim come, instruct your dh to say, "I would love to give you, but I can't. I have a list of Tzedakos that I give to right now."

I am only writing this in response to your post that you are not wealthy. If you were wealthy, then I would tell you to give the meshulachim before your dh gets home.

In answer to your question what these guys do, the answer is that they have found that asking for Tzedaka is easier than getting a job. It's very sad if you think about it.
Back to top

seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 20 2015, 9:22 pm
I'm sorry you're having this difficult experience. Can you try assertively asking them to leave a card (or something) and your DH will get back to them when he is able, now goodbye.?

but yeah they probably do think your DH is a millionaire. Some people just don't get it. Is there something about your lifestyle that might be lending to that illusion? Or are they just misguided?

Your DH sounds like a generous man and in all likelihood the reason they keep coming is because they know he will give them at least something before sending them away. May Hashem shower you will bracha to be able to share more comfortably in the future.
Back to top

rowo




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 20 2015, 9:32 pm
Just a suggestion, don't know if applicable or not..
Work out how much Tzedaka you want to give to these meshulachim and how much goes to other causes - or however you work it out.
Prepare an envelope with $5 or $10 bills (or whatever works for you).
When someone comes you can give them the money, they'll see you're not millionaires, and you won't be spending more than you can afford, and they wont be waiting around for your husband.
Back to top

animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 3:46 am
It's not that you're wealthy- it's that your household opens the door and gives. So they keep coming back. Also, you live in a house and have a car. That may be enough to be considered rich as far as they know.

This is a red button issue for me. I try to remember that when I give and the person asks for more, or when I say I don't have money in the house and they ask me to open a push that is labeled for something else, that they are desperate and that desperation does funny things to people.

Talk to dh. Come up with a plan both of you can manage together, and that you agree is financially mangeable. Talk to a rav as necessary. We give each person no more than once a month, and if they come more often, they get less each time. Our rav said wr shoild try to give, but it doesnt matter how much or little, and we dont have to give each time.

Make a rule of nobody waiting by your house. The street, you can't control, but you can say, "Dh may not be back for over half an hour. Maybe then" to cushion it.
Back to top

Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 5:48 am
Set up specific hours for seeing people for tzedakah. Stick to it.
Back to top

amother
Papaya


 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 6:05 am
Mama Bear wrote:
Set up specific hours for seeing people for tzedakah. Stick to it.


You can make a rule that you don't give collectors. They can leave their literature if they have any and if you want to give then send something in. I hate the high pressure aggressiveness of these men.

Yesterday I answered a the door and the collector stepped into my house. I told him that we don't give collectors at the door. He would not leave for a couple of minutes until I got upset.

If you feed them they tell their friends.
Back to top

studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 6:20 am
My parents try to give when they can, and they camp out at their house too. Dozens of them come one after the next, pretending not to be together. They come at all hors of day and night, even when asked not to.
My father was sitting shiva a few years ago, and one guy could not understand why my father didnt want to hear his whole sob story right then and there. shock
I just tell myself, I hope I never get so desperate that I lose all perspective of what is normal.
Back to top

amother
Papaya


 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 9:37 am
studying_torah wrote:
My parents try to give when they can, and they camp out at their house too. Dozens of them come one after the next, pretending not to be together. They come at all hors of day and night, even when asked not to.
My father was sitting shiva a few years ago, and one guy could not understand why my father didnt want to hear his whole sob story right then and there. shock
I just tell myself, I hope I never get so desperate that I lose all perspective of what is normal.


Many times it is not desperate. It is professional fund raising for a percentage.
Back to top

zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 2:01 pm
I can't speak for the adult men, but you should be aware that the bocherim are not doing this stam for lack of anything better to do, and it is not their mothers who are sending them. If anything, their mothers wish they would come home the minute zman ends, to paint the sukka blue or the porch pink or see the dentist.

Yeshivos send bocherim out on fundraising missions bein hazmanim, and their financial stability depends heavily on the success of those missions. It is usually the best bocherim--by which I mean not necessarily the best learners or the ones with the most impressive yichus, but the ones with the deepest commitment to the yeshiva and the greatest sense of civic responsibility to it--who go on these missions, which are NOT fun if the bocherim are taking it seriously and doing it right.
Back to top

amother
Papaya


 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 2:14 pm
zaq wrote:
I can't speak for the adult men, but you should be aware that the bocherim are not doing this stam for lack of anything better to do, and it is not their mothers who are sending them. If anything, their mothers wish they would come home the minute zman ends, to paint the sukka blue or the porch pink or see the dentist.

Yeshivos send bocherim out on fundraising missions bein hazmanim, and their financial stability depends heavily on the success of those missions. It is usually the best bocherim--by which I mean not necessarily the best learners or the ones with the most impressive yichus, but the ones with the deepest commitment to the yeshiva and the greatest sense of civic responsibility to it--who go on these missions, which are NOT fun if the bocherim are taking it seriously and doing it right.


Some collectors are legitimate. Others do it for a very nice living. My neighbor lives off what he collects. He has a gorgeous home and money to lend. Sure part of the money goes to good causes. I rather give directly.
Back to top

zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 3:26 pm
amother wrote:
Some collectors are legitimate. Others do it for a very nice living. My neighbor lives off what he collects. He has a gorgeous home and money to lend. Sure part of the money goes to good causes. I rather give directly.

I was responding to the OP's complaint about yeshiva bocherim. I am fully aware of professional schnorrers who have more money than the people they beg from and park their Lincoln Continentals around the corner when they come to your door. My mother was not bothered by such things. She said the KBH will balance all the accounts in the Hereafter.

A woman once came to my door to schnorr. She was wearing a stylish fur jacket. (or not. What do I know of style, and in furs, no less? The closest I ever got to a fur was the rabbit's-foot keychain Debbie Morgenstern had in first grade that she let people pet in exchange for a piece of their snack.) The lady's jacket may have been fake , it may have been from a gmach, or it may have been hers from better days long past, but any way you slice it, it's not too bright to go schnorring in a fur.
Back to top

amother
Scarlet


 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 3:50 pm
zaq wrote:
I was responding to the OP's complaint about yeshiva bocherim. I am fully aware of professional schnorrers who have more money than the people they beg from and park their Lincoln Continentals around the corner when they come to your door. My mother was not bothered by such things. She said the KBH will balance all the accounts in the Hereafter.

A woman once came to my door to schnorr. She was wearing a stylish fur jacket. (or not. What do I know of style, and in furs, no less? The closest I ever got to a fur was the rabbit's-foot keychain Debbie Morgenstern had in first grade that she let people pet in exchange for a piece of their snack.) The lady's jacket may have been fake , it may have been from a gmach, or it may have been hers from better days long past, but any way you slice it, it's not too bright to go schnorring in a fur.


Um. My aunt is a woman of means with more than one fur coat. She has been asked to host tzedaka events in her home, and to collect money from people for a cause important to her. She has done both. (But probably not in her fur coat, I'll grant you that.)

Has it ocurred to anyone that these collectors are not collecting for themselves but for other causes, public and private, and the percentage they receive is part of the overhead we know charities incur?

If they get rich doing their fundraising, they must be unbelievably amazing at their jobs. And if you think the cut they take is too high, which is hard to judge since none of us see their paychecks, I'm asking honestly ... for what percentage comission would you do such difficult and often distasteful work?

This is all totally off topic, btw.

OP, it's up to you and your husband to set boundaries. Set aside specific times, or limit the amount, and people will eventually learn the new rules.
Back to top

amother
Papaya


 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 3:54 pm
amother wrote:
Um. My aunt is a woman of means with more than one fur coat. She has been asked to host tzedaka events in her home, and to collect money from people for a cause important to her. She has done both.

Has it ocurred to anyone that these collectors are not collecting for themselves but for other causes, public and private, and the percentage they receive is part of the overhead we know charities incur?

If they get rich doing their fundraising, they must be unbelievably amazing at their jobs. And if you think the cut they take is too high, which is hard to judge since none of us see their paychecks, I'm asking honestly ... for what percentage comission would you do such difficult and often distasteful work?

This is all totally off topic, btw.

OP, it's up to you and your husband to set boundaries. Set aside specific times, or limit the amount, and people will eventually learn the new rules.


The typical percentage is 10 to 20% directly to the collector. That does not include all the other expenses.

I know MY local rabbi collected money for a family. He collected $26,000 and the family received $5000.
Back to top

amother
Scarlet


 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 3:58 pm
amother wrote:
The typical percentage is 10 to 20% directly to the collector. That does not include all the other expenses.

I know MY local rabbi collected money for a family. He collected $26,000 and the family received $5000.


So your neighbor must be very good at his job.

Donating directly still pays the salary for the members of the fundraising department in the organization you're supporting.

Donating directly to poor and needy people (who don't have fundraising departments) is harder to do these days.
Back to top

zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 4:13 pm
amother wrote:
Um. My aunt is a woman of means with more than one fur coat. She has been asked to host tzedaka events in her home, and to collect money from people for a cause important to her. She has done both. (But probably not in her fur coat, I'll grant you that.)

Has it ocurred to anyone that these collectors are not collecting for themselves but for other causes, public and private, and the percentage they receive is part of the overhead we know charities incur?

If they get rich doing their fundraising, they must be unbelievably amazing at their jobs. And if you think the cut they take is too high, which is hard to judge since none of us see their paychecks, I'm asking honestly ... for what percentage comission would you do such difficult and often distasteful work?

This is all totally off topic, btw.

OP, it's up to you and your husband to set boundaries. Set aside specific times, or limit the amount, and people will eventually learn the new rules.


I was referring not to a person collecting for an organization, whom I consider fundraisers, not schnorrers. The lady who came to my door was collecting for herself. I don't say she needs to put on rags but a fur is a luxury item--one that I happen not to possess, BTW. You don't see a certain disconnect, a certain inappropriateness, a certain, let's call a spade a spade, outright chutzpah for a person clad in luxury goods to be begging for money? So be it. There are many things in life I don't grasp, either.
Back to top

amother
Gold


 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 4:30 pm
I know a few people with this problem, some don't ever answer the door except to a secret knock (honest!), some just give out envelopes or spend every night with the wife in the kitchen and the husband seeing mishloachim in the study, etc.

The best solution I have seen is to set up specific weekly times for tzedakah, when dh makes himself available, and for callers at other times either give a small amount , ask them to return at the correct times or leave their contact details.

The collectors soon learn (or the drivers do) who sees who on what day and have the schedule all mapped out - this is part of what they get paid for.

I will tell you anonymously that my father does this every week and my mother spends the afternoon baking for her mishloachim, they lay on a big spread of cakes, snacks and drinks, with a lace tablecloth and nicely laid paperware, and my father calls people in for a personal shmooze and to give tzedakah with honor given and received. He is well known for this, and so is my mother for her baking - the men often leave and then knock again asking for just one more cookie 'for my wife'!

They also have their "down and outs" who come any day for "a biseel gelt" and who get a sit down meal and a doggie bag of food plus a sympathetic ear and some attention and kindness.

It is an enormous mitzva when done well and with thought and kindness.
Back to top

amother
Scarlet


 

Post Mon, Sep 21 2015, 4:36 pm
zaq wrote:
I was referring not to a person collecting for an organization, whom I consider fundraisers, not schnorrers. The lady who came to my door was collecting for herself. I don't say she needs to put on rags but a fur is a luxury item--one that I happen not to possess, BTW. You don't see a certain disconnect, a certain inappropriateness, a certain, let's call a spade a spade, outright chutzpah for a person clad in luxury goods to be begging for money? So be it. There are many things in life I don't grasp, either.


If you know for sure she was collecting for herself, was apparently mentally stable, and the fur looked real enough, then yeah that's not smart. Which may be the reason she can't find employment...
Back to top
Page 1 of 1 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Coworker vent
by amother
10 Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:04 am View last post
Looking for coupon code for Charles Tyrhwitt shirts, thanks
by amother
5 Wed, Mar 13 2024, 11:15 am View last post
Medicaid vent
by amother
32 Thu, Feb 29 2024, 3:17 pm View last post
Tuition vent
by amother
19 Mon, Feb 12 2024, 4:07 pm View last post
Dryer vent cleaning
by amother
17 Mon, Feb 12 2024, 3:36 pm View last post