A child who is "asking for it"

amother

Cobalt

Thu, Oct 01 2015, 11:44 am

Op here, from what the medical professionals have told me--and at this point I'm starting to see their perspective, though I'm not totally conviced, but they aren't helping me much at this point. is that his issue at this point isn't as much dietary, but "withholding" and that makes him nuts. It used to be just #2, but now that he's starting to have more control, its with #1 as well. Its not coming from "anger" its more "aggression" and "passive agression" Here's a typical scenario:
Last night we were trying to go to the sukkah for dinner, would've left him inside with me, but they were inside all day b/c of rain and they were begging to eat in the sukkah. He needed to get his shoes. "DS go get your shoes", "no", "then you won't eat in the sukka", "no, I want to eat in the sukkah", "So get your shoes", "no". "Then you can't go to the sukka", "No, I want to eat in the sukka", "So get your shoes" "NO! (Screaming)". "Ok so if you won't get your shoes, you aren't going to the sukka and its time for shluffy", "NO, I want to go to the sukkah" I put him in his bed and tell him lie down "NO", "Mommy said lie down", "NO", "Shluffy time". No!!! I want to go to the sukkah. (At this point, I'm hungry, want to eat with my husband) So get your shoes "no!" (ARRGH!).

That scenario didn't end up with a patch, however the threat did get him to eventually get his shoes on--but boy did I feel like it.

Then today, he was trying to bounce on his baby sister as I was changing her diaper--annoying and potentially dangerous "Please stop that" "no", "mommy said no", "yes", Looking into his eyes "Mommy said NO, this is dangerous", "Mommy said yes". Meanwhile I can't get her diaper on and move on b/c he keeps trying to bounce on her. "Mommy said stop" "NO!" "If you don't stop then we can't go on our chol hamoed trip", "I want to go", "then stop!" "No! I want to do it". "Then we can't go". "NO!!!!" "Then go to the bathroom" "NOO!!!!" "Then we won't go on the trip". "NOOOO!!!" I got up and went to my room--tantrum. meanwhile I took off from work today to go on an outing that he requested and he's making it impossible to get ready.

His "room" doesn't have a door so I can't just "remove him from the situation and close the door".

HELP!
p.s. He did not go to sleep particularly late last night and woke up on his own.

sneakermom

Thu, Oct 01 2015, 12:07 pm

This child is falling into a power struggle with you.

Firstly I would drop the negative language. "If you don't do this we can't do this."

Instead try: "first put on your shoes then you can go in the succah."

If you have to repeat it. Drop the "you". Just say, "First shoes then succah."

If he still doesn't cooperate literally take a few steps back. Stay calm. Your child is doing normal testing. It's expected to happen.

But stick to the rule. First shoes then succah. No other talk from you is necessary or beneficial.

No begging, threatening, pleading, shouting or bribing.

It's very simple. First shoes then succah.

He might tantrum. He might try running into the succah without shoes (firmly take him back in)

He will try to get your goat the way he's been doing.

But don't take it personal! Expect it to happen cause healthy kids test our patience and stamina.

The more reactive you are the more he will power struggle. Don't play into it. You are the adult.

He will eventually get it.

Great book: listen oy kids do they will speak.

Great approach: nurtured heart (free clips online)

amother

Cobalt

Thu, Oct 01 2015, 6:43 pm

OP here.

Yes, I've read those books, but what do I do if he keeps charging at me? hitting me? Just sit there? What is a natural consequence for hitting mommy? Sometimes he grabs me in a way that since I'm in a hurry he accidentally gets hurt. What do I do when he's being passive aggressive to his older brother and then the brother gets so annoyed that he pushes him/scratches him? By "asking for it" I meant asking for some sort of "punishment"--not necessarily hitting, this child in general has a bit of a masochistic mentality--my husband likes to tickle him and rough him up a little and he always says "again". Its like he wants us/his brother to "hurt him." The last doctor I took him to made it sound like he's trying to be manipulative--of his environment, his reality, and his bodily functions.

Today I was able to "ride out the storm" of the tantrum b/c I was off today, but I don't usually have that luxury. He makes us super stressed out. Last night after the whole "shoe" incident--which also involved him acting super hyper, my husband and I were so worked up that we were getting really frustrated at each other--something we haven't really done since we're married and my 3 year-old asked us why we were fighting?

Instead of getting out on our chol hamoed trip at 11am, we didn't get out until 1pm. Today it wasn't a "big deal" but I really hope that this doesn't recur too frequently.

amother

Orchid

Thu, Oct 01 2015, 10:14 pm

I agree with everything Sneakermom wrote. I would just add, sometimes maybe it's worth it to "give in" before the matter has time to become a power struggle altogether.

I have a 3 yr. old at the moment and I'm trying to put myself into your shoes. For me, I'm really trying to pick my battles, as they say, and esp. when it's vacation and the kids are off schedule and over-tired to begin with.

Ex. You tell him he needs shoes to go out into the sukkah, and he says no. Can you try something like, "You know what tzaddik? I don't want your feet to get all wet, or bitten; can you let mommy carry you out into the sukkah?" And then scoop him up with lots of kisses and maybe tickling while you carry him out.

Or some other "compromise" that's acceptable to both of you.

Ex. bouncing the baby while you're changing her. If it's a regular thing, maybe try to have him distracted with a toy or something before you start changing her. A consequence should be realistic, and immediate. Not going on an outing bec. he didn't stop bouncing the baby was neither. I think an immediate time-out for the count of ten, or maybe up to 3 mins., is fine. But then it's OVER.

In other words, to avoid a power struggle just don't have one, don't let things become big deals.

Re the dr. saying he's manipulative--well yes, I think that's what people mean by "terrible 2's" (which can last while they're 3!) To me that's age appropriate, although "manipulative" seems to impute ill intent into the child. Hth

Last edited by amother on Wed, May 06 2020, 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

chani8

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 4:51 am

Iymnok wrote:

My favorite line from 1-2-3 Magic "No talking, No emotion".
It works in most situations. May need variations.

Not sure what that is, but it sounds good.

I say it once with a logical explanation.
Then I say it short and to the point, like Speakermom suggests. Two or so words. No emotions.
Then I get off my butt and make what I want happen. That means, I take child to the shoes, put the shoes on him, take him to the sukkah. Without saying a word. No emotions.

Jumping on sister. Send him to 'do' something fun. "Go get ready for the fun day by picking out your treat from the treat drawer." Worst case scenario, remove/restrain. Push him out of the diaper room, or sit on him while you finish the diaper. Put him in the crib while you finish the diaper.

But you dont have to get angry about any of this. Stop being so serious and so demanding and so controlling. He's human. A baby, even. Let him be 'bad' and defiant. Just direct him, not command. He can say no. Every human being has a right to say no. Do you want to beat the 'no' out of him?? Of course not. If you show cheer, kindness, regard for him, he'll be happy and on your side. Right now, I sense sibling rivalry, jealousy over the baby. He needs to feel like you two are on the same team. What are you doing to foster team mentality? Right now it sounds totalitarian.

chani8

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 4:54 am

amother wrote:

Are you thinking he has sensory, or possibly psychological, issues?

chani8

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 4:58 am

I dont get this natural consequence language. Is that code for punishment??

I see it as, there is cause-effect. You hit, you are stopped. That is all. Do not hit or hurt or you will be restrained.

He's out of control. That is bad enough for him. You want to punish him for that? That's not what he needs. Have you ever felt or been out of control?? Do you want to be punished... or helped?

This little guy needs comfort and understanding. "Something has you seriously upset here. What is going on? How can I help you?"