SHOCKING DIARY: Not Accepted Into Lakewood Schools

questioner

Fri, Oct 30 2015, 9:45 am

I think there are two separate problems - the lack of space for each child, and the insane competition/push/pull to get into a school that results from it.

One year, I heard about a wonderful playgroup morah that I wanted to send my daughter to. She told me that she had many more parents that wanted to send than slots in her playgroup, and on whatever day she would do a goral to determine which girls would "get in" to her playgroup. (I think that she automatically took siblings of previous students and some of her relatives). Well, I didn't win the goral, and I shrugged and found a different, wonderful morah to send my daughter to. There was nothing personal where someone else was accepted because they were frummer / had more money / more yichus / more power etc. than me, it was just the lack of space and the luck of the draw. As compared to what goes on with school admissions....

Simple1

Fri, Oct 30 2015, 9:49 am

Then I think one solution would be to remove the stigma from some schools and to stop fawning over other certain schools.

I send my daughters to a high school with somewhat of a stigma. Lots of the talk about it is blatantly untrue. It also happens to be run very very well. They're even enjoying it a lot better than their elementary school which has a decent reputation.

Last edited by Simple1 on Fri, Oct 30 2015, 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total

monseygirl1

Fri, Oct 30 2015, 9:55 am

None of the people making this decision on behalf of the 9 girls have ever been in their shoes. I assure you all of their daughters have likely gotten into their first choice. But they blithely say the girls have a school, the parents are unreasonable, and we can't help those who won't help themselves.

Please don't make statements that you don't know to be true. I personally know a school owner who's daughter was out of school for close to half a year before going out of town.
People keep vilifying the owners. Owning a high school is not a very lucrative business. It is a very difficult and thankless job. They do it for the community because there is a need for schools. They cannot except every girl!

Notsobusy

Fri, Oct 30 2015, 9:57 am

Simple1 wrote:

Then I think one solution would be to remove the stigma from some schools and to stop fawning over certain schools.

I send my daughters to a high school with a stigma. Lots of the talk about it is blatantly untrue. It also happens to be run very very well. They're even enjoying it a lot better than their elementary school which has a decent reputation.

I'm like you, I also send my dd to a high school with an undeserved stigma. And we didn't get stuck there, it's the school we preferred. After (accidently) sending our dds to an "elite" elementary school that we totally regret, some of our main requirements in a high school were 1. no stupid rules that have nothing to do with being a frum Jew, and 2. intelligent learning, don't just shove meaningless information into them. (If nobody else ever heard of 10 names for Rosh Hashanah, my kids don't have to learn 10 names. Thanks anyhow.)

Unfortunately I don't think there is a way to remove a stigma. The rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva and vaad can say what they want, but there are too many people who are too convinced that the "elite" is better.

Notsobusy

Fri, Oct 30 2015, 10:00 am

monseygirl1 wrote:

I know it's not only this year that Lakewood has a problem like this. But I can tell you the situation this year, is that that new, small school mentioned was going to close due to lack of students. In order to try to save it, (because Lakewood does need more schools) at a certain point the other schools agreed not to accept more students so all who need a school would be forced to go there.
I understand people not wanting to go to school with 3 others in class, but I think at this point the other schools feel like the 9 girls left are unwilling to work with the system, and they're just not interested in dealing with them anymore.

If they would have done it to 30 or 40 girls, then I would agree with that decision. To single out 9 girls, not fair. Besides, 9 girls is not exactly going to build up a school. You need a lot more.

Chayalle

Fri, Oct 30 2015, 11:25 am

glutenless wrote:

Wow, a woman (couple) after my (and DH's) own heart. I'm so glad there are like-minded people in Lakewood.

Like you, it was my first choice for my oldest DD. I knew she'd thrive in the environment, and happily, my next DD who pretty much could've gone anywhere is very happy there too.

Chayalle

Fri, Oct 30 2015, 11:26 am

monseygirl1 wrote:

Yes, but they didn't decide to do this until most girls were in school and they saw how few girls were going to the new place. Also it may not "build up" the school but 12 girls (9+ the 3 that are there) is a class, 3 is not

And that is what's so unfair to these girls. No one wants to be the guinea pig (with all do respect to those cute furry little pets.)

Chayalle

Fri, Oct 30 2015, 11:27 am

monseygirl1 wrote:

Please don't make statements that you don't know to be true. I personally know a school owner who's daughter was out of school for close to half a year before going out of town.
People keep vilifying the owners. Owning a high school is not a very lucrative business. It is a very difficult and thankless job. They do it for the community because there is a need for schools. They cannot except every girl!

No pun intended!

ETA: It's not just the owners. It's a whole system of Askanim, Rabbanim, and everyone involved. I'm sorry, but from what I've witnessed with close family members and friends, there's alot of Kavod involved and decisions by people who are not feeling the intense pain of the individuals. There are good people really trying hard to help, too, but there definitely are people who have never felt the pain, saying what's the big deal to people who are hurting. Saying you personally know one person who doesn't fit the category, doesn't except all the others who do.

Last edited by Chayalle on Fri, Oct 30 2015, 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total

Chayalle

Fri, Oct 30 2015, 11:30 am

glutenless wrote:

If they would have done it to 30 or 40 girls, then I would agree with that decision. To single out 9 girls, not fair. Besides, 9 girls is not exactly going to build up a school. You need a lot more.

You know, I see a bit of this happening in the elementary schools where there are alot more parents having to look at the newer schools. In a certain sense, that is happening - slowly. There are alot of parents sending to the newer schools, and some of them are really succeeding.

It could work for high schools, lets say if there was a gorel among all oldests entering 9th grade, and 30-40 were chosen to go to the new school.

sky

Fri, Oct 30 2015, 11:51 am

I think with elementary school students it is easier.
The kids are too little to know different, if it is a new school or old school so they don't care and there no stigma for them. Kids are just excited to be starting school.
An elementary school doesn't need the internal structure of a high school (major play, G.O., etc)

Most elementary schools their first year fill up early and by their second or third year are already in high demand.

Is it possible to open new high schools and keep everyone happy?

naturalmom5

Fri, Oct 30 2015, 2:06 pm

monseygirl1 wrote:

None of the people making this decision on behalf of the 9 girls have ever been in their shoes. I assure you all of their daughters have likely gotten into their first choice. But they blithely say the girls have a school, the parents are unreasonable, and we can't help those who won't help themselves.

Please don't make statements that you don't know to be true. I personally know a school owner who's daughter was out of school for close to half a year before going out of town.
People keep vilifying the owners. Owning a high school is not a very lucrative business. It is a very difficult and thankless job. They do it for the community because thereb is a need for schools. They cannot except every girl!

I have a very nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell you

giselle

Sat, Oct 31 2015, 6:42 pm

The first thing I want to say is to all those people suggesting we move out. For many of us that is completely unrealistic for too many reasons to hijack this thread with. (Feel free to start a new thread and I will try to enlighten you when I have time.)

To the mom who purposely sent her daughter to a "non elite" school after her experience with an elite elementary school - kudos to you for seeing the error of sending to that elite school. That is such a huge problem here and is turning these kids into obnoxious holier than thou kids and ultimately adults. I work with children in schools and the one in the "elite" schools overall are judgmental (look me up and down ten times as I pass - it has given me very thick skin but still it's often just uncomfortable) and (with the boys) rude and chutzpadik. What we now have is a society of materialistic and judgmental people - two things I have always thought are quite contrary to the foundations of Judaism. I have so much more to say on this subject but will try to keep it somewhat concise for the readers' benefit.

My own experience with getting my kids into school was to only apply to the one we wanted. A risky move but one that worked thank god. For my daughter we were advised to apply to another bec if we didn't get in to our first choice people would not be as motivated to help us get into any school, so we purposely applied to a school that simply could not take in anyone because there was no room. We pushed our way into our first choice thankfully. Let me make this clear - this is not an "elite" school. It was the only school for us because there is no eliteness and the girls there graduate as fine respectful (and normal!) girls. That's all that counts for us. And unfortunately it's hard to find. So yes I would have been devastated if I didn't get into my first choice and placed into an "elite" school and have my child grow up like them.

I would sign my name on this but I don't want posters to know me from other posts and anonymous posting is disabled.