I am LIVID! | Imamother

goodmorning

Fri, Nov 20 2015, 10:17 am

amother wrote:

Nice punt. Try again.

If Torah learning is the most important thing in the world, why are you posting on Imamother?

Not a punt in the slightest. I am genuinely not obligated to learn, and the are plenty of opinions that it's preferable that I not learn. Smile

There are plenty of more worthwhile pursuits that I could be engaging in at the moment, but we all have our vices, and that doesn't impact our ability to talk about ideals.

And of course, one could make the argument that having a halachic discussion on imamother is a form of Torah study, albeit a rather inefficient one. Smile

cnc

Fri, Nov 20 2015, 10:18 am

amother wrote:

To everyone posting that Talmud Torah trumps all:

Women are only exempt from Torah studies in order to provide child care, and provide for their household needs.

Clearly, you are not currently needed to provide either, as you have time to post on Imamother.

Why are you not instead using your time to study Torah? What is the basis for your "right this minute" exemption?

Not even going to ask how many of you send your kids to schools that ban recreational Internet use (thus putting you in the awkward position of contradicting the school administration just as much as OP)...

I learned that women are exempt from DAVENING (not learning) in order to provide child care, but as soon as they are no longer taking care of their children they have a Chiyuv to daven.
Torah learning is a man's mitzvah.

I don't have sources, Just my high school teachers.
I can be wrong though.

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Nov 20 2015, 10:57 am

goodmorning wrote:

Not a punt in the slightest. I am genuinely not obligated to learn, and the are plenty of opinions that it's preferable that I not learn. Smile

The sources that argue that it is preferable that you not learn say that it is assur for you to learn Shas, yet you just quoted Kiddushin.

Are you trolling us with your husband's Bar Ilan CD?

Your ideals include leaving an Aron on the ground. Stellar ideals.

amother

Bronze

Fri, Nov 20 2015, 11:11 am

My cousin once went into a well-known yeshivish town's main shul and didn't have his hat. He asked a bachur if he could borrow his hat in order to daven mincha. The bachur responded: What? And then I'll have to go look for you after mincha to get my hat back; it's gonna be bittul torah!

My cousin is chassidish. Where chessed is a basic. You can imagine what he had to say about that... Twisted Evil

yksraya

Fri, Nov 20 2015, 11:14 am

amother wrote:

that was selfish
but I think that like many bachurim he was extremely careful with his hat and gave it only as an excuse, still selfish.

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Nov 20 2015, 11:26 am

amother wrote:

The sources arguing that it is preferable for you not to learn also maintain that it is assur for you to learn Shas, yet, you just quoted Kiddushin.

Are you trolling us with your husband's Bar Ilan CD?

Your states ideals include leaving an Aron on the ground. Excellent ideals.

goodmorning

Fri, Nov 20 2015, 11:34 am

amother wrote:

I am aware of what the sources say (though there are those that would limit how I learn Tanach too). If you'd like to discuss women's learning, we can, but it would be helpful if you set your story straight first: do you think women should be learning? shouldn't be learning? learning only if they don't have to take care of their kids and house? learning Torah Shebiksav but not Ba'al Peh? It's getting confusing trying to keep track of what you'd like of me.

My husband does not own Bar Ilan, sadly, nor do I understand how giving a reasonable answer to your question (under my username, at that) is considered "trolling."

You are once again misquoting me. Please see my post on the first page of this thread again.

It seems as though you are trying to use me as a proxy for your benighted RL acquaintances with whom you dare not argue directly, but individuals are a tad more complex than that.

amother

Bronze

Fri, Nov 20 2015, 12:21 pm

yksraya wrote:

that was selfish
but I think that like many bachurim he was extremely careful with his hat and gave it only as an excuse, still selfish.

Even as only an excuse - it proves the point I was trying to make. That the bachur assumed that would be a valid, acceptable excuse.

singleagain

Fri, Nov 20 2015, 1:07 pm

YESHASettler wrote:

Wow... so basically many of you feel that learning about mitzvot is more important than DOING mitzvot.

Let me ask... what would happen if everyone took the attitude of "I'm not going to do it because someone else will"... and then no one does it. How sad.

when I read the above the first thing I was reminded of was the article of 38 saw murder

does no one else remember that story....is this truly what we want to be teaching our children.... I think it would be preferable for too many ppl to get involved in whatever the matter might be, than no one get involved.

amother

Maroon

Sat, Nov 21 2015, 4:49 pm

op here- wow who knew this would take on such a life. Anyway- over Shabbat big rav came to our community and I told him the story and how upset I was and he said- of course your son did the right thing and there was no reason to ask a shailah about a meit mitzvah. I then said- well what if he is learning and he sees someone is hurt and one other person is there- again he said of course he should go see if he can help- what is the purpose of all the learning if he is not using what he learned. I then asked him if he should ask a shailah before stopping his learning to go help- he looked at me like I had 2 heads. He said if its not an emergency and someone else is doing it then you don't have to stop your learning, but to go do a mitzvah, especially of immediate importance one should not think twice and if its not of an immediate importance try to work it out so you can do the learning and mitzvah.

Thankfully some common sense!

Also, to answer the question why we don't pull him from the school- the principal just started a year or two ago, the school was hashkafically where we were and until recently there has been much of a problem and this is ds's last year there....

water_bear88

Sun, Nov 22 2015, 1:07 am

goodmorning wrote:

Still not a halachic meis mitzvah. Though I suspect that you know that and are just using the term figuratively. If OP's son was a kohen, would you be arguing that he should have attended the levaya to carry the aron?

I'm sure there are halachic technicalities regarding how soon the person will otherwise be buried. If there would be someone else available within days, is it still a meit mitzvah? Hours? Is it a meit mitzvah if a cohen finds a body by the side of the road (pre-cell phones) and can reasonably expect that someone else will pass by within a day? Maybe then he should wait there to keep wild animals away, but not m'tamei himself.

You're probably right that this wasn't a technical meit mitzvah assuming the meit would have been left in a mortuary a little longer, but it doesn't sound like there were any volunteers saying "Oh, if you'll just do it in the afternoon, I can make it!". There's still an albeit somewhat weaker mitzvah to bury a meit as soon as possible.

PinkFridge

Sun, Nov 22 2015, 6:05 am

amother wrote:

If the big rav is still in town I would ask him for some good lines for future situations where your hashkafos might conflict, so that your son will not grow cynical.
I still feel that this yeshiva might be the best place for your son, based on this thread. The question is, how to make it work.