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Anyone have a family member who OTDed as an older adult
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professor




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 24 2015, 8:45 pm
amother wrote:
I thought, "Why should I keep shabbat or kashrut? How does it benefit me?"


did anyone ever explain to you that this world was created with shabbat and Kashrut on his mind? and that it benefits you in many ways, some you can see right away, and others are long term?
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professor




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 24 2015, 8:48 pm
amother wrote:
Me and my husband are at a stage where we've just about had it with our community. We are disgusted by our upbringing and the culture in our community. We grew up very sheltered and extreme and if we were to drop certain things in our lifestyle we would be shunned and disowned by our families.

We are seriously considering a move to a " lite" yiddishkeit community but ( no judgements please!) it will be really hard to sift through a list of priorities. We are striving towards authenticity in our yiddishkeit but we are a strong married unit, married ten years. We are mature and eventually, with lots of trial and error, we will discover our truth.

but I can't tell you how tempting it is to just drop everything. We grew up with no real love, so Hashems love for us is a foreign concept. Yiddishkeit for us is about fire and brimstone and hell, unfortunately. We know, intellectually, that this is not so, but this is where we stand emotionally. Why should we continue to struggle when we feel judged by Hashem and by everyone around us? What will give us the strength to stay strong in a new foreign community? That is one of the difficult dillemS we are grappling with.

Where we are headed, we will be considered OTD by our families and friends. It hurts because we just want to stay true to ourselves, true to our life's mission. And dealing with that constant judgement is just another shove down the steps.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are no bad people. Only hurt and struggling people, yes adults too. Nobody does this because of " temptation" or " yetzer hara"
Please don't judge us.


light Yiddishkit is good... you still keep shabos and kosher... you're still frum
dropping certain things is not going OTD
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amother
Red


 

Post Tue, Nov 24 2015, 9:09 pm
It pains me immensely to read through all the posts. I can't fathom the pain and struggles of those non-believers. It must be so hard when you don't see/feel Hashem at your side. I pray that I nor any of my family ever have such a nisayon. Maybe some of you might benefit from Rabbi David Ashear's daily Emunah email. He's amazing. You can sign up at this link: http://visitor.r20.constantcon.....W4%3D
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Tue, Nov 24 2015, 10:09 pm
professor wrote:
I want to understand what people THINK when they go OTD.
I know kids, kids don't think. or they are angry, or just want to be without rules etc,. but what do adults THINK

I guess I just wanna know WHY. can anyone she'd some light on this issue?
This was my post upthread: Many reasons. Some being that they dont believe in the actual religious life anymore and sometimes it is because of anger with G-d. There are so many different reasons why an adult would go off the derech.
I went off the derech (and came back after a while) because I was very upset with G-d for different things in my life and there was no way that I had been able to do anything related to judaism or G-d at that point in my life. I was in my 30s.

What was I thinking? I was thinking that I was extremely upset at G-d and that there was no way that I was able to anything related to G-d and his mitzvot and halachot. I just gave it all up. I could not have any connection with hashem and his ways.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Tue, Nov 24 2015, 10:19 pm
professor wrote:
did anyone ever explain to you that this world was created with shabbat and Kashrut on his mind? and that it benefits you in many ways, some you can see right away, and others are long term?


I am agnostic and always was.

therefore, in the absence of further info, it becomes a cost-benefit analysis.
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amother
Puce


 

Post Tue, Nov 24 2015, 10:26 pm
professor wrote:
did anyone ever explain to you that this world was created with shabbat and Kashrut on his mind? and that it benefits you in many ways, some you can see right away, and others are long term?


No one did. How do you know this? How do they benefit us? Please explain.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 3:43 am
professor wrote:
what you are describing makes a lot of sense. these women were angry and they HAD IT with all the get rules etc.
however, an older adult with a family, who has no trauma of any sort just gives up everything. no kosher no shabbos... makes no sense to me

How old was Elisha ben Avuya when he became Acher?
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 4:15 am
professor wrote:
light Yiddishkit is good... you still keep shabos and kosher... you're still frum
dropping certain things is not going OTD


I appreciate your tolerance. Thank you.

But what about a woman who sent her kids with yours to the right schools and davened at the same shul, and who you chatted with at every chinese auction and sat next to at every kinnis . . . when she stops being so frum, is there tolerance for her?
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princessleah




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 5:29 am
A family member of mine went OTD as an adult, when her kids were grown. She got divorced about 6 years after she got married, with two little kids, living in Brooklyn. Things were not easy for her to say the least. I don't think she has gone on one date since then, and she got divorced 28 years ago.
Her oldest child got married at age 19 and divorced a year later. She had moved to Israel with her husband and things got bad. She felt very angry, upset with the system, etc. She had grown up thinking if you're not shomer mitzvot you have no connection to Judaism. Ironically, being in Israel opened up a whole world to her of people who are secular but still very Jewish. So she went OTD while in Israel. Then the mom went OTD shortly thereafter. Maybe the daughter doing so gave her license to feel more comfortable? Meanwhile her son has smicha. She keeps kosher in her home so he will still visit but that's it.
I think her social isolation really played a huge part in it. That, and being raised by holocaust survivors = not a super healthy childhood.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 5:33 am
I know someone who completely left frumkeit after her husband died young. She had become frum to begin with for him, as it came to light many years later, and after he was gone, she saw no purpose in such a life anymore, to the point that she married a non jewish man.
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shoshana2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 6:34 am
Yes, the outside world's emphasis on money has seeped into the frum world.
This is the unfortunate effect of living in galus. Developing and maintaining a relationship with Hashem is hard but in the end it's the only source of real lasting joy. I have found that attaching myself to people with true Torah values and choosing carefully with whom and where I spend my time helps to keep my relationship with Hashem strong.
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professor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 4:37 pm
amother wrote:
No one did. How do you know this? How do they benefit us? Please explain.

I know it because it's the truth. it says it in the torah, and Baruch hashem I have no hardship undersanding it. I am fully aware that many people think that it's a matter of belief, or faith, faith is the belief in someone or something without proof. if you learn enough torah, and if you go about it with an open mind, you will see the proof too.
so, no I do not have faith. I know it intellectually.
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professor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 4:44 pm
chani8 wrote:
I appreciate your tolerance. Thank you.

But what about a woman who sent her kids with yours to the right schools and davened at the same shul, and who you chatted with at every chinese auction and sat next to at every kinnis . . . when she stops being so frum, is there tolerance for her?

as long as she still keeps shabbos and kosher. as long as she still knows who created our world. as long as she didn't suddenly become ignorant and uninformed and thinks that we evolved from monkeys and there was a sudden big bang that happened for reason. or other garbage that non jews believe in blindly because someone with a lot of influence called it "science"


Last edited by professor on Wed, Nov 25 2015, 7:16 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Funny




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 5:10 pm
professor wrote:
as long as she still keeps shabbos and kosher. as long as she still knows who created our world. as long as she didn't suddenly become ignorant and uninformed and thinks that we evolved from monkeys and there was a sudden big bang that happened for reason. or other garbage that non jews believe in blindly because someone with a lot of influence called is "science"


Stop, please just stop! Your the one sounding ignorant and uninformed. I can't even think. People like you are the ones making others go OTD. Putting evolution to the side, calling science an 'influence' is just mind blowing. Don't ever go visit a doctor again, they do their work according to science. Just stay in your bubble and let the ignorant ones help the world.
(I'm sorry if I sound too mean, but your post is VERY offensive to me, so maybe explain yourself)
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amother
Puce


 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 5:27 pm
professor wrote:
I know it because it's the truth. it says it in the torah, and Baruch hashem I have no hardship undersanding it. I am fully aware that many people think that it's a matter of belief, or faith, faith is the belief in someone or something without proof. if you learn enough torah, and if you go about it with an open mind, you will see the proof too.
so, no I do not have faith. I know it intellectually.


That didn't answer the question.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 5:44 pm
professor wrote:
as long as she still keeps shabbos and kosher. as long as she still knows who created our world. as long as she didn't suddenly become ignorant and thinks that we evolved from monkeys and there was a sudden big bang that happened for reason. or other garbage that non jews believe in blindly because someone with a lot of influence called is "science"

Humans did not evolve from any species of monkey that exists today, rather today's humans and monkeys all evolved from a common ancestor.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 5:46 pm
I object to both posts using "[crazy]" to mean "foolish or stupid".
[posts have been edited- Yael]
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professor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 7:11 pm
Funny wrote:
Stop, please just stop! Your the one sounding ignorant. I can't even think. People like you are the ones making others go OTD. Putting evolution to the side, calling science an 'influence' is just mind blowing. Don't ever go visit a doctor again, they do their work according to science. Just stay in your bubble and let the [crazy] ones help the world.
(I'm sorry if I sound too mean, but your post is VERY offensive to me, so maybe explain yourself)

it's ok. I understand you are angry. I offended your influential politicians who pretend to be scientists. I am sorry. I still think that some of the "science" they spew today is bogus. real science is finding truth. real science is an ongoing inquisitive search for facts that can be proved by logic and evidence.
there is no proof that the world was created by chance. no evidence whatsoever. there's no evidence that a soul does not exist. there's no evidence that there isn't a 4th dimensional existence and even an infinite dimension exists. there's no evidence that our five senses are enough to understand EVERYTHING this world has to offer.
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professor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 7:26 pm
amother wrote:
That didn't answer the question.

what was the question, how do I know this? I learned some Torah and fully understood some concepts. boruch hashem I have the ability to understand some very complex abstractions.
how does it benefit you?
let me try to explain. when you exercise you get muscle cramps. you think it didn't benefit you, because you can't walk the next day, but in reality, it has long term benefits. if you smoke, it feels like smoking "benefits" you because you feel good doing it. but in the long run it can be harmful.
you think washing neigelVassar is annoying but in reality it can protect you from "mazikim" that might be the cause of cancer or something
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professor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 7:33 pm
imasoftov wrote:
I object to both posts using "[crazy]" to mean "foolish or stupid".

I apologize
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