Help!! My husband will not stop opening up credit cards

amother

Lime

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 9:53 am

My husband has at least 4 credit cards under his own name (possibly more) on which he has accumulated over $10k in debt.

He does not have a job. All household expenses are paid for out of my earnings. He is using the money for tzedaka, to lend money to family and friends, and other "mitzvos" (in his mind). But not tuition. That is paid for out of my money.

I do not want to give him money to pay these credit cards. I work very hard and we did not budget this money. I pay off all my cc's every month. I did not even know about the cc's until recently.

We have spoken to our rav who says we can count tuition money as maaser. And certainly there is no mitzva to give tzedaka with credit cards. It falls on deaf ears.

Since he does not have a job there really is no plan to pay off these debts. and I have no guarantee it will not continue and he won't keep using these cc's as he sees fit.

mummiedearest

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 10:14 am

then don't give him money to pay them off. make sure he isn't opening credit cards under your name. it might also be a good idea to let family members know that you two do NOT have money to loan, that he's borrowing from credit cards to do this, and that under no circumstances should they ask him for money.

iriska_meller

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 10:31 am

This is very bad OP. I would speak to a lawyer about potential implications for you. You need to be absolutely sure he is not using your social security number in the applications. What income does he declare in the applications?
Once he ruins his credit, it will take years to rebuild it. This can affect his chances to get a job, rent an apartment, and forget about buying a house or a car. On your part you need to make absolutely sure that your credit won't get ruined along with his.

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 10:32 am

mummiedearest wrote:

then he will have to deal with it. as long as your finances are not tied to this, he will have to deal with it on his own.

If they are legally married, she can be held responsible for his debts.

OP, you should talk to a lawyer, to see if you can financially isolate yourself and shelter your own assets while still remaining legally married.

amother

Black

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 11:08 am

Please try to get help. For both of you. This is more than faulty financial skills/knowledge. This seems to show communication and relationship issues (you didn't know he was opening and spending $10,000 worth of credit cards?) along with what might be an addiction issue.

Amarante

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 11:14 am

I would immediately find out whether his credit is actually separate from yours. As far as I know, spouses are legally responsible for debts unless legally separated. That is why there are notices in papers that technically alert to legal separation.

And I wonder why no one has addressed the elephant in the room that, at least IMHO, someone who doesn't work and is dependent on wife for earnings and the household income is relatively modest has no business spending any money except for the benefit of the family and as agreed upon. IMHO, there is something psychologically off where he wants to appear like a big shot by giving money he doesn't have to others. This should be addressed.

Last edited by Amarante on Fri, Nov 27 2015, 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Green

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 11:29 am

Amarante wrote:

I would immediately find out whether his credit is actually separate from yours. As far as I know, spouses are legally responsible for debts unless legally separated. That is why there are notices in papers that technically alert to legal separation.

And I wonder why no one has addressed the elephant in the room that, at least IMHO, someone who doesn't work and is dependent on wife for earnings and the household income is relatively modest has no business spending any money except for the benefit of the family and as agreed upon. IMHO, there is so,etching psychologically off where he wants to appear like a big shot by giving money he doesn't have to others. This should be addressed.

It depends on the jurisdiction and why the debts were incurred.

In NY you are not responsible for a spouse's debt absent an agreement to take them on. These debts are not for necessities nor did she mention this is a community property state.

Amarante

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 11:45 am

amother wrote:

Yes it is indeed a jurisdictional issue.

To me a marriage is a partnership and one important aspect of that partnership is economics and finances. I don't think spouses néed to be accountable for every penny but I think it absolutely unacceptable for a spouse to make unilateral financial decisions for significant amounts.

While the wife might not be legally responsible, the household is now $10,000 poorer and any money used by the husband to repay should have been going to benefit the children.

Again, I question what kind of psychological issues are causing him to behave this way especially when it appears his Rav has told him that it is not appropriate

amother

Green

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 12:15 pm

Amarante wrote:

He needs to go to work not therapy.

Amarante

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 1:05 pm

amother wrote:

He needs to go to work not therapy.

Yes indeed that is another giant elephant in the room. Very Happy

Someone who isn't working in a household in which expenses are tight should be working unless they are disabled or providing services to the household (e.g. childcare) such that salary would not provide an economic benefit.

However, I think there is a psychological component as to why an unemployed husband in an household in which finances are tight wants to be appear to be such a chuchim to the outside world that he is charging at the expense of his family.

Last edited by Amarante on Fri, Nov 27 2015, 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Green

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 1:12 pm

Amarante wrote:

Yes indeed that is another giant elephant in the room. Very Happy

Someone who isn't working in a household in which expenses are tight should be working unless they are disabled or providing services to the household (e.g. childcare) such that salary would not provide an economic benefit.

However, I think there is a psychological component as to why an unemployed husband in an employee in which finances are tight wants to be appear to be such a chuchim to the outside world that he is charging at the expense of his family.

This is common. Men (and women) with too much time are not grounded. Once he is earning the money he will not be so stupid with it. This man needs a kick to get a job. Much of his behavior will then fix itself.

Amarante

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 1:17 pm

amother wrote:

From your lips to Hashem's ears.

I hope that it is as simple as his only needing a kick to get a job and all will be solved.

SRS

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 1:34 pm

Having a job will not solve the problem, although he needs to get a job ASAP. This type of behavior is deeply problematic and points to addictive behavior and other issues.

I think your first step, knowing that this issue will be difficult to solve overnight, is to visit a lawyer and protect yourself. After that, you can turn to the general marriage and attempt to solve the problem. He must accept responsibility for his debts and not push it on you.

SRS

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 1:40 pm

I'm going to separate out this part of the post to ask a question. Are the people he lends money to (family and friends), people you would consider users? It is also abnormal behavior to ask to borrow money from unemployed people. But it isn't unusual to users use weak people. Determining more about those taking money from your husband via credit cards will help you craft an approach to these people. You can just tell them flat out, we do not have money to lend to you and if fact we need you to pay back everything asap so we can get our own house in order. But chances are that these people are users and your husband likes the ego boost from lending.

In general I would say that the situation of borrowing in the frum community is not normative.

amother

Green

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 3:48 pm

SRS wrote:

Having a job will keep him busy. When he is working, he will learn how many hours of work it takes to pay for something. Another income will relieve the financial stress on OP and give DH a boost in his self esteem. I have seen this type of behavior often get resolved to a certain extent by forcing the nonworking spouse to get a job.

There is no shame in a man not working in the frum world. In the secular world he would be considered a bum. Here a bum is someone who violates the dress code by wearing colored shirts.

Right now DH is burning up the credit cards. There is no time to figure out why nor does it really matter. I disagree that it is a symptom of deep seated addictive behavior. I think he financially stupid and he should be ashamed of himself for being a deadbeat. These are the type of words I would say until DH got up and went to work.

amother

Cobalt

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 3:53 pm

Start checking up his stories. He may be lying about where the money is going. He may be gambling it away or spending it on some other addiction.

As another poster noted, it is highly unusual for people to ask for loans from unemployed individuals.

amother

Orange

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 3:57 pm

amother wrote:

There is no shame in a man not working in the frum world. In the secular world he would be considered a bum. Here a bum is someone who violates the dress code by wearing colored shirts.

Things certainly have come full circle. Back in the day, a Jewish man was considered to be a catch even among the Gentiles because he was a family man who worked hard to provide and wasn't likely to be a problem drinker or physically abusive.

Not that women didn't work hard as well because many Jewish women worked but it would have been unheard of for a man to not work and have a woman be the sole breadwinner.

amother

Green

Fri, Nov 27 2015, 4:12 pm

amother wrote:

It is not so unusual. These people have time on their hands and they try to help each other out. I have seen it time and time again. The worst is that the person who loans the money can't ask for credit card interest.