S/O Heimish food: basar v'dagim

wiki

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 11:21 am

"Basar v'dagim v'chol mat'amim" is a concept that some take seriously as a semi-required menu custom; others see it merely as a reflection of one Jewish culture's idea of what oneg Shabbos must have looked like.

My question is: has anyone ever heard of ideas that a fish course is required only on Friday night, but not on Shabbos day?

My mother has started to observe this religiously recently (a new tradition! we never had fish growing up as any sort of requirement), but she does it only Friday night. And when she's busy and doesn't put it all together, she just opens up a can of tuna fish, which nearly seems to decrease the kavod of the Shabbos meal.

Does this come from anywhere? My mother just says, "I heard you're supposed to do this, no?"

dancingqueen

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 11:24 am

If anything I think people are more likely to serve fish as a first course at lunch ime.

I just don't know how people eat a whole challah and dips course, fish course and then still have appetite left for the meat course!

mha3484

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 11:28 am

I make all the courses as per DHs request but I usually just eat the fish and main. The kids often the fish and soup and DH likes all.

tigerwife

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 11:40 am

We serve fish by both meals.
Sometimes by the day meal we would just have herring.
Talking about DH, of course- personally I don't eat any fish at all simply because I do not like it.

Chayalle

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 11:45 am

I serve fish both night and day, along with a full traditional meal, but none of my kids eat much fish.

At the day meal, I don't serve eggs and liver, because DH prefers chulent and has no room for both. So it's Challah/dips, fish and salad, and Chulent.

zigi

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 11:54 am

my kids like tuna, we save it for Shabbos. present it nicely. they also like sprats. Shabbos day most kids eat fish at shul. basser can be schnitzel and cold cuts.

cnc

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 11:57 am

Interesting, I never heard of it just for one meal.
Sometimes when it's a three day yom tov and everyone's sick of fish already I just put out herring.

AlwaysThinking

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 12:03 pm

We serve fish at the day meal, sometimes it is just tuna but I cut up onion into it and make it a little fancy. We also serve actual meat (aka goulash meat in a stew of some kind).

Chicken doesn't really count as basar, from what I learned.

But I have family who will happily eat milchigs. I see it as a strong minhag, couldn't imagine doing that.

slinky

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 12:13 pm

As long as you eat something thats considered choshuv (chicken, meat, liver, fish) by the meal thats enough. You do not have to eat fish its just a suggestion since its considered choshuv. There is a kabbalistic reason for eating fish by all 3 meals on shabbos.

agreer

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 12:24 pm

Growing up, we only ate fish friday night. I don't think it was a minhag; it's just what we did.

however, I learned you should eat it by every meal, so now that I"m married I serve it at all 3 meals.

It's way better to eat tuna than no fish; OP's mom is doing the right thing by eating tuna fish, even straight from the can. I love tuna salad on shabbos!

grace413

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 1:26 pm

I had a relative who told me that I would burn in hell because I don't serve fish at all Shabbos meals.

I may burn in hell but I don't think lack of fish will be the reason. Rolling Eyes

PS: Said relative was also disapproving of the fact that I did not speak Yiddish. When I told him there were entire communities of Jews who never spoke Yiddish, he said "They must not be frum"

sourstix

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 1:31 pm

grace that sounds nasty. please dont even consider what that relative is saying. these are not what make it or break it. and I am a yiddish speaking family and eat fish three times a shabbos. no I would never say that. its utter stupidity

chicco

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 2:02 pm

The mishna brurah says straight out that if people don't like fish they are not required to have any. What will happen to those folks?

ra_mom

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 3:37 pm

chicco wrote:

The mishna brurah says straight out that if people don't like fish they are not required to have any. What will happen to those folks?

Nobody is required to eat anything.
Just make a shabbos seuda that you enjoy.

Raisin

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 3:41 pm

chicco wrote:

The mishna brurah says straight out that if people don't like fish they are not required to have any. What will happen to those folks?

the main thing is to enjoy your shabbos meal. Minhagim are wonderful, and I do try and serve fish and meat at both meals. But enjoying your meal is also important...if you are too full after gefilta fish and soup to enjoy the main course that is not enjoyable. Its not enjoyable to sit through 4 courses when you are stuffed after 2. Serve less food or smaller portions or less courses.

I often only serve cholent on shabbos day and that means we actually enjoy the cholent.

BinahYeteirah

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 4:00 pm

grace413 wrote:

I had a relative who told me that I would burn in hell because I don't serve fish at all Shabbos meals.

I may burn in hell but I don't think lack of fish will be the reason. Rolling Eyes

Your relative doesn't sound very pleasant, but s/he might be referring to something I've regularly heard: Dug on Dug saves from Dug. I don't know the source.

The 1st "Dug" refers to fish
The 2nd "Dug" is the gematria of dalet and gimmel, 7, which refers to Shabbos
The 3rd "Dug" is a roshei tevios (a rosh tevah?) for "dina shel gehinnom"

Chayalle

Tue, Jan 19 2016, 4:18 pm

grace413 wrote:

I had a relative who told me that I would burn in hell because I don't serve fish at all Shabbos meals.

I may burn in hell but I don't think lack of fish will be the reason. Rolling Eyes

PS: Said relative was also disapproving of the fact that I did not speak Yiddish. When I told him there were entire communities of Jews who never spoke Yiddish, he said "They must not be frum"

It's his/her ancestors fault, for not fulfilling their responsibility of providing yiddish classes in all sephardic communities.

Just kidding. How obnoxious.