I'm have HOW MANY people for the first Seder?

Ima2NYM_LTR

Sun, Jan 31 2016, 9:46 pm

Our seders are usually small, with only 2-4 additional people, besides my family of 4. This year though, things have blown a bit out of proportion. My father, who lives in E"Y, will be in America the week before Pesach for a conference and is staying on to join us for the seder...
but..
...it has to be the first seder only..
...my sister and I have to come up with a way to do it together. She lives nearby, but always starts her seders around 5 so they can finish before her kids get tired. She wanted me to compromise and start early. This is why we have never done it together in the past.

So we have (no one else on this list is Shomer Shabbos). No, we can't invite any of them the second night, because they will be going to my sister the second night.

4 - my family (2 kids)
4- my sisters family (2 kids)- they will eat before coming over and may leave during the seudah - at least they will listen to the seder after zman.
2- my dad and step-mom
2 or 3 - my second cousin and her non-Jewish fiance (he's come before). Her mom may come (my mothers cousin). Tradition to have them.
1 my mothers other cousin who doesn't like my dad, but will be civil. Separate tables. Tradition to have her.
2-4 my step-mothers in-town sister, who invited herself, her husband and out-of-time-zone newly-married son (therefore, I also have to assume possibly the DIL). Even if she hadn't invited herself, my step-mother would have pressured me into doing it anyway.
0-1 my step-mothers other sister- lives a few hours a way, and probably wont come, but knowing my luck....
_____
15-19 total

I don't even know where I will have space for the tables for them. Right now I'm thinking of putting my couches in the DR, the DR and kitchen table + a card table in the LR and serving in there, and using the folding table as a staging area. Plus the added stress of it being on Shabbos. No, I can't afford cleaning help and I don't feel comfortable asking anyone else to chip in. Yes, I have already committed to using disposables-I need to maintain at least a little sanity. I don't even have enough real plates.

I think I may be overwhelmed.

HELP!!!!!

Fave

Sun, Jan 31 2016, 9:53 pm

Wow - you have a lot of guests, but a lot of time to prepare!

I thought that mishloach manos thread was early!

mummiedearest

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 9:14 am

we have an average of 16 adults plus 6 kids when we make seder. we usually do one at a relative's down the block.

it's not as bad as you think. take a deep breath. yes, use the couch for seating. you can squish a whole lot of kids on one couch, they think it's fun. two tables should do it. if you need an extra folding table, buy one now. they're hard to get right before pesach. for the meal, keep it simple. I make a huge pot of chicken soup, potato kugel, salad, and brownies. the end. no one is hungry for more at that point. the hardest part for me is checking all the lettuce, but you could splurge on pre-checked. the seder plate will be the same amount of work. just make sure you have enough haggadahs and place settings to go around. seder is probably the easiest meal to host a large crowd.

chani8

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 9:23 am

The lettuce is the hardest part.

mha3484

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 10:05 am

I learned from a rebbetizin who hosts large sedarim to use the romaine stalk instead of the whole leaf. I use the leaves for salad during chol ha moed when I am more in the mood to check.

HonesttoGod

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 10:09 am

Plastic plastic plastic.
Everything. Table cloths, plates, bowls, cups, bechers, cutlery, literally everything.
I swear it makes it a HUGE load easier and not to mention you can get really nice real looking stuff these days.

Ima2NYM_LTR

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 10:14 am

Part of- a lot of- my anger is from the 4 guests who invited themselves, and from the fact that I am being forced to accept them, even though I have no room (physical space). My step mother wrote me a long, guilt-ridden email questioning my commitment as a (step) daughter , Jew, human being, frum Jew, lover of hachnasat orchim, etc because I said I was uncomfortable with the fact that her sister invited herself, her husband, and her out-of-town children, who did not have any previous plans to come to town.

She essential called me miserly, ungracious, self-centered and mean to not include them. She played the "where else will they have a seder?" card (even though they have made many of their own seders in the past and are perfectly capable of doing so again)

I feel I am being emotionally manipulated and pushed with my back against a wall.

Ima2NYM_LTR

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 10:20 am

letter from step mother I had when I woke this AM

Dearest Ima2NYM_LTR,

I first want to say that I love you very much. Ima2NYM_LTR, You are a dear girl with a big heart. I am sure you will be sharing this email with (husband) as I know you will be making this decision together. Thank you for your email.

Since it was me who influenced Dad to “try” the Seder in (my town) again if he could get you girls to sit together, I am especially feeling badly because I didn’t think it would mean a big increase in people and tension to your Seder. The opposite, I thought it would be more healing for you and him and the family.
I assumed at least (step-mothers BIL) would go to (step-mothers nephew and his wife) out West. In fact, I didn’t mention our visit until yesterday to them as I was hoping (step mothers sister) would go out West too. Dad and I were up all night feeling badly. He kept bemoaning the fact that every time we come to (my town), there is always such tension of some type. Tension between (step mothers sister) and you girls. Tension between you girls, tension with (my sister) making us feel badly, tension, tension, tension! We kept saying maybe we shouldn’t have planned on coming. Never a dull moment!!!! I keep thinking that I should go off with them and cook the food and have a Seder (at (step mothers sisters house). and leave Dad to you guys. BUT when I suggested this to him, he has already said to me, he would never agree to this.

That being said, if it was up to me, I would never say no to people who needed a Seder, and it would be nice for families to be together. True, my house is bigger ,but, although I am not orthodox, I feel it is a real mitzvah to accommodate people who have no Seder. ( I doubt (step mothers sister) would do anything alone with just 4 people because she now lives in (different town 90 min away) all week.) My attitude was always, the more the merrier. I remember one year when my house was much smaller, like your dining room area, and I had many, many people, we put all the kids around a coffee table on the floor on pillows. They felt as if they were having a Seder in olden days. To this day, they speak about how wonderful a Seder it was, and it was their best memory of a family Seder. At night the kids all fell asleep on the floor in sleeping bags with their cousins. In the last few years because I can’t do as much work as I normally have done in the past, I simply tell Dad, we need to order in some of the food, and you need to cook the turkey etc. and I need to start cooking the week before and make Pesach early etc. etc.. (Albeit, I don’t know if there is a kosher enough place in Albany for ordered food.)

Granted, (step mothers sister) is quite unusual, and, at times very hard to deal with, and this makes me feel stressed and guilty that she is part of my package deal. We all know this although she has usually behaved herself at your house. She will also probably say to me, “I invited them all to the aufruf weekend” Of course, the Temple is a lot bigger than your house. I just hope there is a way.

If it is my decision, I would invite them, but invite them graciously.

If this will help, we will be there and help you cook and set up. I will tell (step mothers sister) that she won’t be able to see me on Friday morning as I will be helping you.
In addition, Dad and I will help pay for the food.

Whatever you decide to do, please DO NOT report back to (my sister) and discuss this with (my sister) in a negative way. (my sister) often says NO and doesn’t know the meaning of graciousness when it comes to my family. Unfortunately, (step mothers sister) is part of my package deal reality as you know. I don’t want (my sister) to be involved with this decision because she will make both Dad and I upset. I apologize in advance for putting you under tension and pressure as this was not my purpose. My purpose was the opposite. I know (my sister) has thousands of positive characteristics as well, such as helping (poor group), but unfortunately, her graciousness doesn’t carry over to my family. Please erase this email as I wouldn’t want her to see it.

Lastly, it is exclusively your decision! BUT if you decide to do it, do it with a smile (if possible). I am thinking G-d will truly reward you! If you decide not to, I will understand and still love you. I am not your momma. However, I am still trying to teach my children the meaning of graciousness and so ……………………..
Whatever you decide, just let us know.

Is there anything I can bring you from Israel that can help such as , kneidlach mix packages, soup almonds kosher for Pesach, kosher for packaged Passover cakes etc, and what gift should we bring to you, our host, a new seder plate, matzah covers?

Lots of Love, (step Mother)

PS
Just that you should be aware: I don’t know if you know this but Dad has told me numerous times that (my mothers cousin) and her dead mother have always been mean to him since the “old” days. While he will never say anything to you, just be aware of this, and perhaps if she comes, don’t sit her near him. He also still feels badly about the “old” days. He feels badly especially about what happened to you, but also feels badly that certain people made him into the exclusive bad guy. I have been trying so hard to heal all of this for you guys. BUT I am not a magician.

Blood boiling

mummiedearest

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 10:26 am

mha3484 wrote:

I learned from a rebbetizin who hosts large sedarim to use the romaine stalk instead of the whole leaf. I use the leaves for salad during chol ha moed when I am more in the mood to check.

you still have to glance over the stalk. when you're doing it in bulk, it will still take time.

workaholicmama

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 10:33 am

Sorry I don't have any concrete advice for you (other than disposables😃) just wanted to express my understanding of dealing with difficult relatives. Btdt. Ask Hashem for guidance.

mummiedearest

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 10:34 am

Ima2NYM_LTR wrote:

wow, what a lovely step-mom. I suggest you just say no. tell her that you appreciate her concern, and that you feel the added guests will add to the tension. you appreciate her offer for help, and you would love for her to help out in x ways. you cannot overextend yourself with a smile, so you will decline to have her relatives this year. you feel that extra guests will take away from your rare daddy-daughter time. you look forward to seeing your dad and stepmom, love, yourself. wash, rinse, repeat as necessary.

ecs

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 10:38 am

mummiedearest wrote:

you still have to glance over the stalk. when you're doing it in bulk, it will still take time.

we do this and it saves ALOT of time. if you're having a crowd you should def do it.

Ima2NYM_LTR

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 10:41 am

ecs wrote:

we do this and it saves ALOT of time. if you're having a crowd you should def do it.

Better yet- Im going to make my dad and step-mom do it!

ecs

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 10:44 am

Ima2NYM_LTR wrote:

Better yet- Im going to make my dad and step-mom do it!

you should!

shoshana2

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 8:21 pm

Graciously decline to have your step moms family- and do NOT feel guilty!!!

mummiedearest

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 8:32 pm

ecs wrote:

we do this and it saves ALOT of time. if you're having a crowd you should def do it.

maybe I will one day. but I like the leaves Smile

Tzutzie

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 10:22 pm

Yikes. Id be boiling too. Just have your dad and step-nut over. I like mummiedearest's advice.

amother

Red

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 2:50 am

FYI about checkng leaves... You might not be able to have non frum people check. Ask LOR, something about trusting their kitchen, would they really check every leaf (or stalk) etc. I remember a Rav who said he paid non jewish workers at a restaurant he was mashgiach over a nice bonus for every blood spot found in eggs as otherwise they may not pay close enough attention. Again, ask LOR especially as everyone's family circumstance is different and definition of "not frum" varies.

5mom

Tue, Feb 02 2016, 3:16 am

There are two separate things going on here.

One is the practical issue of making a seder for a larger crowd than you usually have. With advance planning, you can make it work. There's lots of good advice out there.

The second issue is the way your family is behaving. That's out of your control. They sound like a difficult bunch.

My advice is along the lines of the rabbi who says to bring the animals into an overcrowded house. Invite more guests. You're going to be cooking for a crowd anyway, why not have over some people you like? They will dilute the craziness somewhat and you can have a safety valve.

Then have yourself a quiet second seder. Next year, Pesach will feel like a breeze. Best of luck!