Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Working Women
Being orthodox in secular environment
1  2  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
Emerald


 

Post Thu, Feb 04 2016, 8:45 pm
Anyone experience subtle hostility in secular work/school for being orthodox woman?
Back to top

PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 04 2016, 8:48 pm
Curiosity, yes; hostility, no. Can you be more specific?
Back to top

amother
Emerald


 

Post Thu, Feb 04 2016, 8:52 pm
Just them not being friendly.
Back to top

PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 04 2016, 8:56 pm
No offense intended, but do you assume it's because you're frum? How long have you worked there? Are you the newbie? Are they nice to each other?
Back to top

amother
Emerald


 

Post Thu, Feb 04 2016, 9:01 pm
Good point. No, not new. The boss is Jewish but not religious and he seems to have something against me.
Back to top

NurseK




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 04 2016, 9:45 pm
Sometimes. More of a feeling that they know Ill always be separate/different from them in some regard, so why try to become best friends? Their approach is true to an extent. I am usually not going out drinking with them after work, etc.
Back to top

MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 04 2016, 9:53 pm
No.
Back to top

amother
Burlywood


 

Post Thu, Feb 04 2016, 10:02 pm
Yes but only from one person out of the dozens I've worked with over the years. She didn't have the greatest filter and she said a few things that made it obvious she had an issue with my orthodoxy. Because it was just her though, it didn't bother me that much. She also said a few really obnoxiously racist comments to my black coworker... She was obviously a bigot and overall it didn't feel too personal.
Back to top

agreer




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 04 2016, 11:41 pm
I once had a supervisor who gave me a hard time because I told her I would never go to a church or a non-kosher restaurant for out-of-work bonding or a work lunch. She thought I was making this stuff up because *her* Jewish friends would go to these places. She was horrible, but not subtle about it at all.

If it's subtle, see if you can live with it. If it becomes overt, you may want to start looking for another job.

Sorry! Hugs.
Back to top

amother
Oak


 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 12:27 am
I worked in a public school in Brownsville, NY and my experience was that the people I worked with assumed I was wealthy and racist (because I was a white Jew ). I am neither of those but I would always get comments that indicated they thought I was rich. I tried so hard to be nice and to fit in, the more I tried, the worse it was. I would not work in an environment like that again. There were too many issues and misunderstandings.
Back to top

sky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 7:34 am
As others said - mostly curiousity and interest. very little hositlity.

At one time I had a boss who asked me to meet with a contractor on Saturday. Before I could even say anything my co-workers all piped up that I can't work on Saturday (its even in my contract). I didn't say a word but he gave me the nastiest stare. I ignored it and figured I mis-interperted it. But after the meeting a few people said something to me about it and were upset about it. So even if there are a few bad situations I find in general people are supportive.
Back to top

cm




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 9:18 am
Some non-religious Jews have issues that can spill over to work, but certainly not all.

Working for/with devout Christians is usually quite easy (IME), in terms of a respectful environment.
Back to top

amother
Pearl


 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 9:39 am
When my husband was in medical school, I worked at a location with very few Jews, none of whom were Orthodox. My colleagues were sometimes curious and nearly always respectful, and even tried to make sure I had kosher snacks at work parties.

I was switched to a different project manager to help with one aspect of our project that was particularly behind schedule. When we met, the project manager told me that he had a Jewish girlfriend in college, but she broke up with him because her mother wanted her to marry a rich Jewish doctor. Then he said, "Just like you did, right?"

I didn't appreciate him projecting his issues with his girlfriend onto me but I didn't feel like I could say that straight out. My co-workers had warned me that he could be difficult and a project that's running months behind isn't a pleasant environment to begin with. So I said, "Actually I married a poor medical student with lots of debt", and he laughed and didn't bring it up again.
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 10:00 am
My husband works with.
Brace yourself.
German (real German from Germany etc), Irish, Jewish frei to Jewish chassidish, black, Muslim (frei to djellabas), "Frenchy" (atheist to church goer with Yoshke stuff)...
He ONLY had big problems with the frei Jewish category. No, not most of them. But a few.
And sometimes when the [gentile] or the Arab says good Jewish year but not the frei, it feels sad.
Back to top

lfab




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 10:07 am
amother wrote:
I worked in a public school in Brownsville, NY and my experience was that the people I worked with assumed I was wealthy and racist (because I was a white Jew ). I am neither of those but I would always get comments that indicated they thought I was rich. I tried so hard to be nice and to fit in, the more I tried, the worse it was. I would not work in an environment like that again. There were too many issues and misunderstandings.


I'm sorry that you had this experience. I have also worked in several public schools in Bushwick NY and I never had these issues. Most of the people I worked with were just curious about the many different jewish customs but I never had any hostility from any of the people that I worked with. I had 1 or 2 issues with the principal of the school regarding leaving early on Friday in the winter and she got annoyed when I took 2 maternity leaves 2 years apart. But I didn't have to deal with her with any regularity so it wasn't really an issue. Other than that I always had a positive experience with everyone I worked with.
Back to top

Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 10:51 am
Nowadays I'm able to do most of my work from my home office via Internet and phone, so my clients don't see me. That's a huge help, because years ago I often had bad experiences with non-Orthodox Jews.

I think the circumstances created a perfect storm:

DH and I were usually hired by boards of directors, executive directors, and others at the top of whatever food chain existed in a given non-profit Jewish organization. However, I was then sent to do training, implementation, and recommend various changes in the way things operated.

Most of the employees (almost 100 percent women) were college-educated, feminist-identifying women who were basically secretaries, but without the training and professionalism that title should imply. They were frequently active in their Jewish communities, and they were heavily invested in believing that Orthodox women are ipso facto uneducated, oppressed, and pretty much dumb as rocks.

So in I prance, wearing a shaitel and sometimes pregnant, to explain that computers are more than MS Word and Excel and that their bosses want them to do things differently -- in ways that are not necessarily easier for them.

Often I could win them over through sheer force of personality, but sometimes no amount of tact could overcome their need to believe that Orthodoxy equals oppression. On one notable occasion, I had a group of women complain in advance about my giving a seminar (apparently they objected to my presence as a "negative role model for Jewish women") and then ostentatiously walk out when I started speaking.

Btw, I think these incidents were pivotal in determining how I respond to various Chassidish minhagim and cultural norms. Remembering some of the sotto voce remarks I overheard regarding my shaitel, my pregnancies/children, my obvious backwardness . . . I can't possibly imagine criticizing someone just because she doesn't drive.
Back to top

debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 11:28 am
Ruchel wrote:
My husband works with.
Brace yourself.
German (real German from Germany etc), Irish, Jewish frei to Jewish chassidish, black, Muslim (frei to djellabas), "Frenchy" (atheist to church goer with Yoshke stuff)...
He ONLY had big problems with the frei Jewish category. No, not most of them. But a few.
And sometimes when the [gentile] or the Arab says good Jewish year but not the frei, it feels sad.


I have had the same experience, whether in grad school or professional environments. I'm a friendly person, and I like getting to know people from all over. When I worked in one department, run by a Catholic woman, I had lots of friends, it was all fine. Another dept, there was just this subtle undercurrent and comments that couldn't have had anything to do with me personally (I just transferred here yesterday.....) but were mild anti-frum slurs. Also, a lot of assigning me urgent work at 2 PM on Friday, when my shift is over 2:30 and you know that I need to leave. Look, sometimes there's urgent work, but ALWAYS on Friday and ONLY me? EVERY week? It was subtle but demoralizing. I did what Dr. Joy Browne says - cheerful but stupid - friendly and managed to misunderstand every negative comment in a positive manner.
Back to top

sky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 12:19 pm
The German co-worker comment reminds me of my first job.

I was the only frum person (like I am now) in the office and there was one non-practicing Jew.
He took off for yom kippur and the next day. (don't know if it was yom kippur or worked out that way).
There was a German guy in the office (not sure if that made a difference) and he started going on and on about how "those Jews" take vacation for their religious holidays and take advantage of the system (he happened to have not liked the guy who took off).
I spoke up and said "We have to use vacation days for religious holidays like everyone else, we don't just get days off". He didn't respond but walked off in a huff.
Its one of the few times I really saw platent anti-semitism.
Back to top

Mrs Bissli




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 07 2016, 9:32 am
Occasional ignorant comments or questions, but not sure if it is specifically toward a sole frum woman. I work in largely secular environment, where overt expression of personal religious beliefs is rare and not really considered the norm. In a way it's not bad you don't have evangelical colleagues intent to proselytising, but some of my colleagues including the most senior Managing Director have no qualms about expressing hostile views against any organised religion. I have worked for a German bank and still have a large proportion of German clients, now have a number of Arab clients and travel there occasionally with never having any issues. One of my ex colleague was half Palestinian half Japanese guy, I got a bit of a shock initially his middle name was Arafat but he was similarly shocked to learn I am an observant Jew (I use my non - Jewish sounding maiden name for work ) . I also work in a very male dominant office, I'm actually the only woman in the team of 9 people, I'm quite accustomed to it.
Back to top

FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 07 2016, 9:40 am
I tend to ascribe to this philosophy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.....razor

It serves me well.
Back to top
Page 1 of 2 1  2  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Working Women

Related Topics Replies Last Post
ISO secular books for 13 year old girl
by amother
5 Mon, Mar 18 2024, 11:09 pm View last post
No secular studies - Interesting POV. 4 Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:56 am View last post
Chasidishe instagram using secular songs with curse words?
by amother
82 Thu, Feb 22 2024, 1:44 pm View last post
Modern Orthodox birthright trip 10 Thu, Feb 15 2024, 4:04 pm View last post
Secular historical fiction (or nonfiction) for kids/teens?
by amother
10 Thu, Feb 01 2024, 1:59 am View last post
by GLUE