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ASAP: Is my chicken safe???
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 2:44 pm
I prepared a pan of chicken for Shabbos last night, left it in the fridge, and left instructions to DH to put it in the oven around 11:45. He had to leave the house at 1:15 but I would be back at 2, and the chicken would need to bake for even longer than that. And we have a babysitter in the house during that gap time so if something were really burning or something it's not like the house would burn down with no one home.

I came home at 2 to find the oven off with the chicken in it. I called DH to find out what the story was. He said he put it in at 11:30 and then turned it off around 12:20. I started to ask why and he got annoyed with me and hung up and wouldn't pick up his phone again. I can't stand when he does this, it makes it impossible for me to figure out what's going on! I have no idea why the chicken got turned off an hour before he even had to leave the house when I left explicit, clear, written instructions to just leave it!

So anyway my chicken apparently got removed from the fridge, was in the oven long enough to get good and warm but not NEARLY enough to get cooked, and then SAT THERE at a warm temperature for an hour and a half. When I got home the oven was already room temperature and I turned it on right away but then it had to just start heating up all over again.

Please please please please tell me the chicken will be OK after it gets cooked through. I am the same poster who is having a breakdown in the mental health forum. I PUSHED myself to prepare the chicken and instructions last night. I have no time or energy or space or utensils or pans to make anything else. If the chicken is spoiled we will eat nothing but yogurt all shabbos because that's what I have in the house that's edible. OK there could be worse tragedies but can someone with a knowledge of food science please tell me whether or not I actually have to do that?

Bear in mind please that half my breakdown is over finances and there is about $15 of chicken in that oven. And while I was having my breakdown I left the cholent meat defrosting in the sink and forgot to put it away before I went to sleep so that went in the garbage already too. So now we REALLY won't have food if the chicken is bad. I can't take it anymore. I am trying my hardest in every area and just NOTHING is working out.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 3:08 pm
OK even worse, he fnally came home and I cornered him for the full story, and I got the timeline wrong: he put the chicken IN the oven at around 11:10 and turned it off around 11:40. It was off for MORE than 2 hours before I got home, and not in there enough to get properly hot at all.

Is my chicken doomed?
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happyhub




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 3:11 pm
I tried looking up this answer online, the vibe I get it can be potentially dangerous because bacteria may have had time to grow. I am so sorry to be a bearer of bad news, but at the same time potentially health saving news. My heart feels for you. Ultimately it is up to you, if you feel that it was not sitting for too lengthy a time.
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amother
Firebrick


 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 3:23 pm
From a food safety professional:

Throw it away. Food should be considered unsafe if the food itself (not the ambient temperature) is between 40-140° F for two hours or more. This includes warming up and cooling down.

Thoroughly reheating the food may reduce the bacterial load but will not remove the toxins that have been produced.

Food that looks, smells and tastes fine may be hazardous. No one would get food poisoning otherwise!

Food poisoning is extremely unpleasant (been there, done that, despite my knowledge) and can be life threatening for certain vulnerable groups.

I wish I had better news for you.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 3:31 pm
I don't have the slightest idea what the temperature of the food was at any point but I can't imagine it was good. It went from the fridge to an oven that was not pre-heated, let's assume the oven reached 350 in about 10 minutes, then it was at 350 for about half hour, how hot does chicken on the bone get in a half hour? Then it took how long to cool back down to a dangerous temperature? And stayed at room temperature for the next... until 2Pm. is there any amount or degree of cooking that will make it safe?

I literally have nothing else to make for shabbos. I am so mad about this.

DH thinks I'm nuts for getting upset about a stupid chicken. He doesn't understand at all. You know what I had to do for that chicken?
1. Drive into Brooklyn. With my kids. Shlep them around in the store. Pay for it with money that we can afford to spend on shabbos chicken but really can't afford to throw in the garbage.
2. De-feather and clean the chicken, figure out how much it will take to feed us each shabbos, package it, label it, and configure the freezer around it.
3. Plan and remember to defrost it at the right time to be able to cook it.
4. Prepare it for cooking.
5. Realizing that I didn't have time and energy to cook it last night, set it up and devise a plan of how exactly it can be arranged to be ready for Shabbos. Calculate how much time it needs and when to start it and when DH can put it up between his coming and going. Write clear, simple directions and leave in a place where he will have no way to not be able to find them.
6. Remember all this in the morning, notify and remind DH.
7. This is possibly the most important: feel a little better that even with everything going wrong and everything falling apart and me falling apart and not doing anything right, a shadow of my former efficient self managed to pull together a Shabbos meal plan that makes so much sense.

And now I'm upset not just about a stupid chicken but about this:
1. After all the thought and planning I put in behind the directions I left for DH, he thought he could just switch it around to suit himself without even asking whether there was some other cheshbon to consider.
2. Now I'm back to literally nothing working out. I was looking for just one little bright spot to keep me from falling off the edge of "nothing is going right" and that was going to be sitting down to a yummy classy shabbos meal that I prepared. (did I mention that I was being super efficient and put together a one-pan meal with rice, vegetables, and chicken layered? ALL he had to do was stick it in the oven as directed. And if he wasn't comfortable with that, ALL he had to do was either ask me or just leave it in the fridge and maybe I could have pulled it off in time with a higher cooking temperature. But nothing is going right for me lately so why am I even surprised?)

And while I'm typing out my chicken question I got a reply phone call from the Department of Nitpicky Paperwork that they are working on my case but it is very possible that I will not be paid at all for two weeks of my work.

I just can't take any more. Now do you understand why a stupid chicken is sending me over the edge? well good because DH never will.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 3:37 pm
OK, moving right along because I'm awesome like that (haha, after totally falling apart and letting all my little kids see me cry and scream at their father over a chicken mishap) what is the quickest, easiest thing I can do with dark chicken cutlets? I just pulled them out of the freezer, frozen flat so with any luck they will defrost quickly and my oven is already at 400 from trying to salvage the chicken (food sci amother, do I really need to throw it away? dang. it smells good already Sad )
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mommyla




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 3:44 pm
Chicken lo mein:

Boil 3 c. water with 1/3 c. oil.
Add 10 oz. spaghetti or linguine
Add: 1 clove crushed garlic
1/2 tsp. salt
3 tsp. onion soup mix
dash black pepper
paprika to taste
3 Tbsp soy sauce
1 tsp sesame oil (optional)

Cook 5 minutes. Add strips or cubes of dark cutlets. Cook 10 minutes. Lower heat and add frozen veggies (I use broccoli and water chestnuts), cook additional 5 minutes.

Good luck OP, hope Shabbos goes well.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 4:33 pm
amother wrote:
From a food safety professional:

Throw it away. Food should be considered unsafe if the food itself (not the ambient temperature) is between 40-140° F for two hours or more. This includes warming up and cooling down.

Thoroughly reheating the food may reduce the bacterial load but will not remove the toxins that have been produced.

Food that looks, smells and tastes fine may be hazardous. No one would get food poisoning otherwise!

Food poisoning is extremely unpleasant (been there, done that, despite my knowledge) and can be life threatening for certain vulnerable groups.

I wish I had better news for you.



I'm actually curious about this stuff.
My mother is really really not careful about storing foods right (shabbos night chicken stays out till the next day, anything she cooks stays on the counter...) while I realize this must not be good do u really think something bad will happen if they eat this chicken? ?

We are Bh healthy and never had issues from it..

Oh and I stopped bothering my mom about it because she ser has no awerness. If u know of a short guide/ website that's not too extreme I would love to show it to her
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 4:36 pm
I have worries about things like that but I think maybe there's a little more room for forgiveness when it's already cooked. The original bacteria got cooked out of it and now in order to get unsafe it needs to grow them from scratch. Could be my rationale isn't so scientific but that's how I look at it... though when I visit homes like that I tend to avoid eating fleishigs after the first meal (ie when it's still fresh)

Chicken staying out until the next day is for sure awful, but I think if it just takes a while to get around to putting it away and then you heat it well before eating, maybe not so bad.
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amother
Firebrick


 

Post Fri, Feb 05 2016, 4:39 pm
amother wrote:

So anyway my chicken apparently got removed from the fridge, was in the oven long enough to get good and warm but not NEARLY enough to get cooked, and then SAT THERE at a warm temperature for an hour and a half. When I got home the oven was already room temperature and I turned it on right away but then it had to just start heating up all over again.


Definitely more than two hours in the "danger zone." As much as you may feel like feeding your husband a toxic chicken at the moment, I strongly suggest you discard the food. It sounds as though a houseful of vomiting family members is about the last thing you need, if you are under stress already.
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WastingTime




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 06 2016, 3:22 pm
Ok this is obviously irrelevant now. And I know everyone disagrees with me but I am going to say this anyway. If it was cooked for a 1/2 hour it was barely cooked, but cooking definitely began (depending on size of chicken and if cut or not). Left in the oven it was still cooking on low for another while until the oven cooled down. One thing if it sat raw on the counter, another if it was relatively cooked just maybe a bit rare.
I would never throw something out like that. BH we never got food poisoning in our house.

If you google things, they also tell you that leftover chicken can only be eaten for 2-3 days. We eat ours for 5 or 6 with no problem.

I think people are way too scared of everything being spoiled, and although I completely understand the better safe than sorry theory, in this case I would just recook it.

Wishing us all good health!
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Sat, Feb 06 2016, 4:08 pm
Obviously I will post this anonymously because I'm embarrassed in front of all you here.

When I buy my chicken I don't always put it in the fridge right away. I sometimes wait a few minutes and I forget about it until hours later.
As soon as I remember I put it in the fridge and before cooking it (up to 4 days later) I smell it and I've never had a problem with the smell before the 5th day.

This week I bought my chicken at 11 in the morning on Tuesday and placed the bag on the floor when I got home. I totally forgot about it until about 6 that evening. Mind you my floors are heated so when I picked up the bag it was warm. I placed it in the fridge and Thursday I did my smell test and there was no trace of sulfur. The chicken came out great btw.

None of us have ever had food poisoning from my chicken thank God! I hope it stays that way.

in ops case, I would probably smell the chicken and if it smelled fine and looked good, I would use my judgment based on those factors.

I also put my food away after the meal at least a couple hours later, sometimes four hours later, and then I heat it up later in the week as leftovers.

My point is that I've read, heard from so many places that if the chicken is raw on the counter for more than 30 minutes, and you leave your food out for more than 1 1/2 hours you're at risk of food poisoning. I tell you from experience that it has no basis in reality.
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amother
Powderblue


 

Post Sat, Feb 06 2016, 4:44 pm
amother wrote:
Obviously I will post this anonymously because I'm embarrassed in front of all you here.

When I buy my chicken I don't always put it in the fridge right away. I sometimes wait a few minutes and I forget about it until hours later.
As soon as I remember I put it in the fridge and before cooking it (up to 4 days later) I smell it and I've never had a problem with the smell before the 5th day.

This week I bought my chicken at 11 in the morning on Tuesday and placed the bag on the floor when I got home. I totally forgot about it until about 6 that evening. Mind you my floors are heated so when I picked up the bag it was warm. I placed it in the fridge and Thursday I did my smell test and there was no trace of sulfur. The chicken came out great btw.

None of us have ever had food poisoning from my chicken thank God! I hope it stays that way.

in ops case, I would probably smell the chicken and if it smelled fine and looked good, I would use my judgment based on those factors.

I also put my food away after the meal at least a couple hours later, sometimes four hours later, and then I heat it up later in the week as leftovers.

My point is that I've read, heard from so many places that if the chicken is raw on the counter for more than 30 minutes, and you leave your food out for more than 1 1/2 hours you're at risk of food poisoning. I tell you from experience that it has no basis in reality.

Thank you for writing that! I can't believe how much baal tashchis is being done here and on facebook groups that im in.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 06 2016, 4:54 pm
amother wrote:
Thank you for writing that! I can't believe how much baal tashchis is being done here and on facebook groups that im in.


It can also be looked at as ונזהרתם מאוד לנפשותיכם
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amother
Powderblue


 

Post Sat, Feb 06 2016, 4:57 pm
etky wrote:
It can also be looked at as ונזהרתם מאוד לנפשותיכם
True and Im not even so extreme as the poster I quoted. But I think people really exaggerate.
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WastingTime




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 06 2016, 5:20 pm
amother wrote:
Obviously I will post this anonymously because I'm embarrassed in front of all you here.

When I buy my chicken I don't always put it in the fridge right away. I sometimes wait a few minutes and I forget about it until hours later.
As soon as I remember I put it in the fridge and before cooking it (up to 4 days later) I smell it and I've never had a problem with the smell before the 5th day.

This week I bought my chicken at 11 in the morning on Tuesday and placed the bag on the floor when I got home. I totally forgot about it until about 6 that evening. Mind you my floors are heated so when I picked up the bag it was warm. I placed it in the fridge and Thursday I did my smell test and there was no trace of sulfur. The chicken came out great btw.

None of us have ever had food poisoning from my chicken thank God! I hope it stays that way.

in ops case, I would probably smell the chicken and if it smelled fine and looked good, I would use my judgment based on those factors.

I also put my food away after the meal at least a couple hours later, sometimes four hours later, and then I heat it up later in the week as leftovers.

My point is that I've read, heard from so many places that if the chicken is raw on the counter for more than 30 minutes, and you leave your food out for more than 1 1/2 hours you're at risk of food poisoning. I tell you from experience that it has no basis in reality.



Good to know I am not the only one who isn't a spoiledfoodaphobic. I am more stringent about certain things than you are, but I agree with you that food poising risk is WAY overrated.
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 06 2016, 7:32 pm
Ladies just because you never got sick from a risky behavior doesn't make it not risky. It just means you've been lucky. It's like not wearing a seatbelt is still a bad idea even if BH you never get hurt.

Op major hugs. It sucks that your dh is not more of a partner in taking care of things with you. I hope you had a great shabbos in the end!
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 06 2016, 8:36 pm
Amother slateblue, the problem is that germs do not always smell. If chicken is at room temp for 3 hours, it could have no germs and not smell, or it could have a toxic level of germs and not smell, and you have no way of knowing which it is. I'm not paranoid about counting exact degrees or how many minutes is the cutoff - I think they need to set a time frame as a guideline but that doesn't mean that one minute more or less than 2 hours is what makes the difference. But I do have a healthy enough sense of fear not to use a chicken that has been sitting on a warm-but-not-hot floor for 7 hours.

The worst I do on any kind of regular basis is forget to defrost meat/chicken in advance, so I need to do a quick defrost by putting it in water, but then I don't remember it quite as quickly as it defrosted so it might end up sitting around defrosted for an hour or so before I cook it. And if it's two hours but it had started off frozen solid and I know I froze it when it was very fresh, I don't worry about it. But if it's been sitting and sitting that's not a good thing.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 06 2016, 10:08 pm
I am happy to hear that many of you have not gotten food poisoning despite not following food safety rules. If you have guests, you should be careful because not everyone has strong stomachs. I am on anti acids and get food poisoning much more than the average person and it's terrible. I also hate wasting food and money but believe me it's much better then spending a week in the bathroom. If you want to take food risks, don't do it if you have guests.

Op, I am sorry this happened to you. Sounds super frustrating!
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yidisheh mama




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 06 2016, 10:11 pm
Hugs, op. I just saw your post. I hope you had a good shabbos after that ultra high pressure Erev Shabbos.
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