Being orthodox in secular environment

debsey

Sun, Feb 07 2016, 10:05 am

DrMom wrote:

Sadly, most negative experiences come from non-religious Jews. Most non-Jews are reasonably respectful (at least among my US colleagues - I've detected an occasional undercurrent of hostility from European colleagues).

I find this too. But like I said earlier, I love doing the "cheerful but stupid" thing. (You people always manage to take off during the busy season.... ) Rather than take umbrage or point out that I'm using my vacation days to take off (or that Succos or Pesach time is rarely "the busy season", or that this person is suspiciously absent due to such urgent things as hangovers after Super Bowl Sunday) I just say "You people? Meaning, interns? I suppose we use our vacation days like everyone else." I just deliberately misunderstand in a benign manner. How I feel about is something else, though........

debsey

Sun, Feb 07 2016, 11:14 am

LittleDucky wrote:

Mostly with graduate school professors and classmates.
You would think at schools where tolerance, diversity, and multiculturalism is promoted I wouldn't feel this way. But apparently Orthodoxy doesn't sit well with them.

It's this ethos: "I need to fight intolerance, bigotry, and racism wherever I find it. Therefore, I cannot accept you as an Orthodox Jewish woman." (with no examination of the inherent contradiction or irony of that statement.)

wondergirl

Sun, Feb 07 2016, 12:01 pm

debsey wrote:

This is becoming more and more common on college campuses especially. Particularly on campuses where BDS has a strong presence (although it is going on in general as well even without BDS) and is directed towards all Jews regardless of their religious affiliation. This article explains it much better than I ever will--
http://www.thetower.org/articl.....owed/

debsey

Sun, Feb 07 2016, 12:09 pm

wondergirl wrote:

Thanks for providing this link. Many of the situations quoted reflect my own experience as an Orthodox Jewish woman on campus.

sofpink

Sun, Feb 07 2016, 1:16 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I tend to ascribe to this philosophy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.....razor

It serves me well.

Loved the link, LOL right now!

I am a currently studying at a secular public university in the tri state area and I've found little issues regarding this subject. The main issue is trying to avoid extremely friendly men classmates to study/partner with me in projects and evangelical/JW/Mormon classmates that try to give me their religion schpiel. Usually I just act being busy and apologize for not having time to chat.

nylon

Mon, Feb 08 2016, 8:39 am

I am going to be a bit of a devil's advocate for a moment because I've been on both sides of this fence. Yes, non Orthodox Jews are often more judgmental than non Jews.

However, that's also because they are closer. It is not all prejudice or thinking Orthodox Jews are backwards and on campus there is a huge difference between just being non-Orthodox and being a super left winger into BDS. Many non-Orthodox Jews have had negative experiences with Orthodox Jews. They feel judged, or have been judged. On some campuses, the Orthodox Jews come off as cloistered, clannish, and unfriendly. In their/our desire not to get involved in things that are inappropriate, a wrong impression is left.

finprof

Mon, Feb 08 2016, 9:19 am

I work at a Catholic university. The results have been mixed. My biggest issues have arisen around all the YTs in the fall semester. They don't understand that it's not just a choice to be with family but that we actually can't work. They also can't seem to understand why the holidays are on different days each year.... they know logically but I've been told that it's "very inconvenient."

They also don't give tenure extensions following maturity leave (which is standard practice) so you are penalized for having kids....odd for Catholics, righ?

LittleDucky

Mon, Feb 08 2016, 10:25 am

debsey wrote:

So true. So true.

I got engaged while in school and my program-mates all assumed it was an arranged marriage. shock

I hadn't spoken about my "boyfriend" so that was proof I had no Idea who he was but I just explained, or tried to anyways, that culturally we just don't talk about these things in public. That there aren't as many fish in the sea so to speak so we don't talk about dating as openly- maybe your neighbor will date him after you!
Even "open minded" professors thought this, based off of assumptions and probably the fiddler on the roof Rolling Eyes

Chayalle

Mon, Feb 08 2016, 11:03 am

LittleDucky wrote:

So true. So true.

I got engaged while in school and my program-mates all assumed it was an arranged marriage. shock

I got engaged to DH while working in a totally secular environment in NYC...and one day, with all of my coworkers present, my boss (a Catholic woman) asked me if I'm going to do the bath thing before my wedding.

It really was just curiosity on her part and nothing else, but the presence of my male coworkers was a bit discomfiting, to say the least....

When I came back after Sheva Brachos, they were all lined up to compliment me about how beautiful I looked in my new wig.

BTW I've had the opposite experience with non-frum Jewish coworkers, both expressed their admiration to me for "living life the right way" and telling me they wish they could but it would just be too hard...Imagine living without cheeseburgers.

I had one coworker whose brother was in the process of becoming BT and the guy used to discuss it with me all the time. I did my best to validate his frustration and answer his questions while he struggled to maintain his relationship with his brother and best pal. First brother stopped eating meat at the family BBQ, then nothing at all, then his SIL started covering her hair, etc....it's so hard on the family and confusing when this is someone you love and want to stay close to.

He asked me about how to behave at the Seder he'd been invited to, and stuff like that. And he enrolled his daughters in the local Jewish (but secular) daycare/preschool, where they made kipas just like the boys for a class project. Well, at least those beautiful girls are getting something of a Jewish identity....

sky

Mon, Feb 08 2016, 11:49 am

My co-workers were also so confused when I just got engaged. I knew all about their girlfriends who they had dated for years (and pregnancy scares) and here I was getting engaged to a guy they never heard of...
I invited a few people to my wedding for the chuppah, and one was very insulted I didn't hug him on my way out from the chuppah. He came toward me with a big bear hug.
When I went back to the office they didn't realize I was wearing a wig - which was strange - because I went from wild, thick, curly, frizzy hair to a sleek straight sheitel with bangs (!!).

I do find I have to be extra sensitive to those who are not frum and know nothing about orthodox. For example I have a co-worker who once offered me an orange. I didn't take it, wasn't hungry. He was distant for a while and when I asked why he was insulted that I didn't trust him enough to eat an orange from him.