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-> Judaism
-> Halachic Questions and Discussions
pause
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 11:42 am
lefty1 wrote: | I learned in hs that it's a machloket (ramban and rambam I think ) why we wait - is it because of the taste from our stomachs from or because you could still have mea stuck in your teeth. If it's because of meat in teeth, you wouldn't wait after clear broth but if it is about taste you would. On the flip side, if one chewed meat but spit it out, would have to wait according to the teeth opinion and not according to the taste. We are machmir for both opinions. I find it troubling that a semicha class would be less in depth than my hs halacha class. | Therefore, (just to continue your train of thought), if one tastes clear chicken broth AND then spits it out, he has not become fleishig. (Because he didn't chew the chicken/meat nor did he swallow for taste) Maybe that's where OP's Dh is getting confused.
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chani8
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 12:07 pm
That is how we hold. Taam fleshig isn't fleshig.
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Mevater
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 12:14 pm
I would think this could easily be clarified (today's accepted Halacha regarding eating dairy after chicken soup, with chicken removed) by her calling her DH's Rov and/or the Kollel where he learns.
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chani8
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 12:26 pm
chani8 wrote: | That is how we hold. Taam fleshig isn't fleshig. |
You are a chutzpa to report my post. Should I just say, "I hold by the SA on this matter."
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Seas
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 12:44 pm
chani8 wrote: | You are a chutzpa to report my post. Should I just say, "I hold by the SA on this matter." |
What about the Rema who clearly paskens that we should wait (as brought by someone on the first page)?
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Mevater
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 1:05 pm
What different people hold is totally irrelevant to OPs question. OP needs to straighten this out with the Posek at the Kollel where her DH supposedly heard this.
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nyer1
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 1:16 pm
amother wrote: | I asked Rabbi Eckstein Belze dayan in Boro Park and he said if the soup had chicken or meat you are fleishig and must wait 6 hours to eat dairy |
assuming it's your family minhag to wait 6. some hold 3!
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mille
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 8:28 pm
pause wrote: | Therefore, (just to continue your train of thought), if one tastes clear chicken broth AND then spits it out, he has not become fleishig. (Because he didn't chew the chicken/meat nor did he swallow for taste) Maybe that's where OP's Dh is getting confused. |
And this I have heard of - tasting clear broth AND spitting it out, and that it doesn't make you fleishig. I have never had to worry about this in practice, but this does rattle around in the back of my mind as something I've heard of qualified people talking about before. It would be interesting to hear if this is actually practiced by anyone.
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goodmorning
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 10:22 pm
FranticFrummie wrote: | Translation, please? (I don't trust Google Translate) |
The SA says that if one eats milchigs after eating a cooked dish containing meat (but not the meat itself -- e.g. broth with the meat removed), or eats meat itself after a cooked dish containing cheese, he has to wash his hands (I.e. as in the transition between milchigs -> fleishig.)
The Rema adds that our practice today is to be stringent, not to eat milchigs after a meat-containing dish, as though it was meat itself, and one should not change that practice and cause a breach.
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Mevater
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 10:44 pm
OP, can you name the Rov who told this to your husband?
Theres 2 possibilities:
Your husband misunderstood
OR
Your husband misunderstood.
Im not aware of any respected mainstream Orthodox Rov who says that you can eat dairy right after chicken soup, even if the chicken was removed.
Please enlighten us, either way.
Last edited by Mevater on Tue, Feb 09 2016, 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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seeker
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 11:19 pm
the world's best mom wrote: | The Torah doesn't specify that chicken is Pareve. It also deosn't specify that it is Fleishig. There was a debate about what the Halacha is, and I believe the Gemara says it is considered Fleishig. |
I would be interested if you (or someone) could source that because I am not very familiar with Gemara but thought I remembered learning that chicken was first considered fleishig around the time of the rishonim.
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greenfire
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 11:29 pm
chani8 wrote: | You are a chutzpa to report my post. Should I just say, "I hold by the SA on this matter." |
I thought this was a halachic discussion between mature adults ... I agree how insanely chutzpa it is to run & report
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amother
Cobalt
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Tue, Feb 09 2016, 11:39 pm
Oy. Dh just read through the sugya with me and its the Rabeinu Tam questioning whether you have to wash your hands after eating a clear/fat free broth or not. He says you dont. The same Rabeinu Tam holds that from eating actual meat to dairy all you need to do is wash your hands and mouth. We do NOT hold like this today at all. There are several Rishonim who hold you dont need to wait at all, but No one does this.
The shulchan aruch says we do wait. Everyone waits at least something. Its how we pasken as all Yidden.
Not waiting after soup would mean you hold you do not wait after any meat...
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seeker
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Wed, Feb 10 2016, 12:08 am
Actually I could be wrong, it could be just the waiting in between that was started in the time of the rishonim and not the chicken thing. Or maybe both. History is not my strong point.
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finallyamommy
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Wed, Feb 10 2016, 8:32 am
What? I have never heard of this.
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myself
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Wed, Feb 10 2016, 8:36 am
If your DH has semicha then I'm sure he was also taught that not everything that is mentioned in the SA is the final word on the matter, and that not everything has practical applications today.
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Mevater
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Wed, Feb 10 2016, 9:20 am
What happened to the OP (Amother Slategray)?
I hope her husband isnt eating a cocktail of chicken soup and dairy ice cream, and making her nuts.
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Mama Bear
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Wed, Feb 10 2016, 9:40 am
I think that if you taste the chicken soup to see if it needs more salt, then it doent make y ou fleishig. not if you eat an entire bowl of soup.
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gp2.0
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Wed, Feb 10 2016, 10:48 am
From what I remember there is some debate as to what makes us fleishig and how that affects the time between eating.
1) is it that there's food stuck in the teeth
2) is it that the food is still digesting and you may burp up the flavor
3) is it that meaty foods coat the mouth with an oily texture
and so on.
As I remember, the conclusion was to wait until the next meal before eating dairy after meat, which led to some debate about length of time between meals (is it 3 hours, 6 hours etc. and some saying that the next meal just means cleaning your mouth and hands and the table. But today accepted Halacha is to wait.) The link below explains that waiting between meals was a custom that was then codified as Halacha.
https://oukosher.org/blog/cons.....eals/
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amother
Slategray
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Thu, Feb 11 2016, 11:31 am
OP here.
To clarify, the idea of chicken being not really meat is not relevant here as he said same for beef broth.
DH is taking semicha classes which is where he learned this.
B"H he has let go of this and understands that this is NOT what we will be doing in our home.
No, he is not lenient about things in general at all. I think he just got excited and carried away with what he learned.
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