You only get three . . .

amother

Cyan

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 8:30 am

If I was talking to a heterosexual male I would ask
1. Marry jewish ( with a non jewish partner it I think its impossible to come back even slightly)
2. Be Honest
3. Pesach seder(It's only once a year, pretty doable)

To anyone else:
1. Be Honest
2. Pesach seder(It's only once a year, pretty doable)
3. light Shabbos candles ( also pretty doable)

2cents

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 9:59 am

Such an interesting topic! Reading through the answers, I'm so surprised that so many are including 'honoring parents'. Can someone clarify why this would make it on to the list and what expectations you would have if your otd DC committed to it?

Is it meant as a self-serving, catch-all clause? Like, "if you marry her/him, it would dishonor and upset me, and you promised to keep kibud av?"
Because that's not fair, and it's not even halachic. Honoring parents, halachically, comes down to a series of superficial actions that you may or may not do (stand up when they enter, help to feed and clothe them when they need help, not contradicting them even when you don't agree and have no intention of obeying them...). A person doesn't have to comply with all of his parents' wishes.

I'm having difficulty figuring out why this would make someone's list and what the hope and expectations would be.

2cents

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 10:03 am

amother wrote:

I'm curious why you would require a man to marry a jewish woman, but not require a woman to marry a jewish man, if your reasoning is that it's hard to come back if you have a non-Jewish spouse?

Also, why is pesach seder important? Because of culture and identity?

Again, not attacking or questioning you, just really curious!!

tigerwife

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 10:04 am

I'm surprised a lot of people here chose Kibbud Av V'em. Not sure why.

Sometimes even a connection to one small thing can make a difference- like say a specific tefilla or perek of tehillim a day, like shema. Also, OTD is a bit broad- does he believe in G-d? Is he mad at G-d? Apathetic? Reminding someone to talk to G-d will only work depending on their relationship with Him.

I think taking a small piece of the big three may work- like don't eat pork/ sea food, take a day off on Shabbos, and try for mikve or at least abstain part of the month.

Heyaaa

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 10:07 am

1. Yom Kippur. At least they should have one day a year focused on thinking about their heritage and about doing teshuva.

2. No non kosher animals. They will remember it every time that they go shopping and every time that they are in a restaurant. Also I learned (and believe, you don't have to agree) that non kosher animals have Tumah that has a major effect on the neshama.

3. Marry a Jew. At least it means they keep themselves in the camp.

grace413

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 10:20 am

2cents wrote:

Because it's a mitzvah and it's doable even if you are OTD. No, it's not meant as a catch all. At most it's please don't be mechallel Shabbos in front of me or eat treif in front of me. Really it's you are still connected to the family and we expect you treat us with honor and respect. It's also a mitzvah with a clear reward.

greenfire

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 10:21 am

I have answers but not a single one would be halachic ... I believe a person's soul should be nurtured & then only they can connect to Hashem in a way that is true to them

so for one child it might be - don't forget to bentsch licht
another might be reminded of the beauty of mikva
take a moment to reflect on the power of prayer because Hashem is everywhere
love thy friend as thyself aka be a mentsch

amother

Cyan

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 10:22 am

The reason I cared about the man marrying a jewish girl was because the way I see it women have a much stronger pull to spirituality and religion in general.
So if a Jewish otd girl would decide to come closer to Judaism even though she is married to a non jew I can see the husband either going along with it or let her do her own thing, and she has the most influence on the kids who would still be jewish.....

What I've seen from growing up in a kiruv community is that if the wife is interested in religion the family becomes religious to a certain extant (sometimes dh goes along s/t he doesn't). But when the husband is interested- if his wife isn't interested there is no way for him to keep TH, kashrus or shabbos or in fluence his kids.

Pesach because its only once a year, its more of a relaxed family time then Yom kipur, so it would keep him connected to something enjoyable and significant (which is why I didn't choose chanuka)

grace413

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 10:24 am

tigerwife wrote:

I think taking a small piece of the big three may work- like don't eat pork/ sea food, take a day off on Shabbos, and try for mikve or at least abstain part of the month.

I don;t think these are realistic expectations of somebody OTD. Maybe the pork/shellfish after they'd tried it out and seen that it wasn't that great (I assume). TH is hard for believers and while many traditional people keep at least part of it, I can't imagine anybody defining themselves as OTD and doing it. Many people work on Shabbat and those that don't are doing stuff they enjoy that's not within halacha.

grace413

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 10:34 am

Ruchel wrote:

LO alenu

Definitely kosher, shabbes, nidda, but if not then:
no intermarriage, chas veshalom
keep the traditions like lighting...
chagim at least the ikkar?

How are they OTD if they keep kosher, shabbes, nidda?

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 10:39 am

Nice story on this topic. A grandson of the Kamarna Rebbe was on his way OTD and decided to leave yeshiva to join the army. His Rosh yeshiva called him over and said, "I have only one request. Your holy grandfather's minhag was NOT to say tachanun on Fridays. Please promise me you won't say tachanun on Fridays." The boy promised cuz he had no problem not doing a mitzvah. Sure enough the first week he didn't pray at all, and it wasn't an issue, but the second Friday he thought he felt guilty that he can only fulfill his promise by davening and skipping tachanun. So he started davening one a week on Fridays, but that was enough to keep a connection and he eventually fully returned and he credited this promise for making it possible.

tryinghard

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 11:00 am

2cents wrote:

Even if a woman intermarries, her ids are still Jewish so if she comes back, great. It's harder for an intermarried man to come back because his kids aren't Jewish so there's a lot more pulling him...

amother

Mistyrose

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 11:16 am

I find this too sad to construct an answer about which three.
What I could see doing is consulting whichever Rav or advisor understands the child's religious struggles best, and asking for his recommendations. I'd also be sure to phrase my requests in the positive, ex., please eat only kosher, please put tefillin on, etc.
But all this presupposes a lot about the parent-child relationship, of course.

BH I have not faced this issue, exactly, but a couple of my kids have struggled.

LittleDucky

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 11:38 am

Tough one. Many here are picking categories of Halacha. Not individual ones.
1. Marry a Jew (and not a fake conversion. I have no problem with true Geirim, but I see many have trouble when one partner really isn't Halachically Jewish.)
2. Give sons a halachic bris
3. Light shabbos candles weekly (sons can do it too...)
4. Don't eat pork or shellfish. They will eat trief. But if I could dream and they only eat nonkosher beef (even if worse aveiros) it is something they will do constantly and consistently. It's about reminding them where they came from.

Yes, I wrote 4 down, but 2 are once in a life type decisions. I think all TM will go out the window, especially as it's not something kids really learn and experience knowingly. And things like Seder if they have a positive emotional connection to it they will likely want to pass it down to their kids on their own. Even once a year events really stick in the memory...

amother

Cobalt

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 11:58 am

I have a relative that isnt religious anymore. It was ingrained into him to marry jewish, and he did. His kids are automatically jewish and have the choice to be religious or not when they grow up. One ds didnt have a kosher bris, but that doesnt take away his Jewishness.

1- marry a jewish girl
2- not to eat pork
3- call your parents weekly - kibud ov veim