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Am I being obnoxious
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:10 pm
I work for a frum non profit organization. We are running a raffle now. There are two parts to the raffle, a big mailing goes out and there is a lady who is hired to find telemarketers and make phone calls to solicit pledges for the raffle. I take care of all the computer work for the raffle, entering payments, pledges, sending out bills etc. I do not believe that the organization makes any money off of the telemarketing part of the raffle. They are paying the lady in charge of the telemarketers a decent amount of money, all the telemarketers get paid, it costs money to send out bills and a lot of the pledges are never paid up. This year I am keeping track of which raffles came as a response for the mailing that went out and which raffles came through telemarketers. If I am indeed right that the telemarketing aspect covers its costs but does not bring in a profit for the organization is it not nice of me to bring it to the attention of the higher ups? The lady in charge of the telemarketers needs the money and it would be hard for her if she lost this job. On the other hand, if we got rid of the telemarketing aspect it would be half the work for me and at no cost to the organization.
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:13 pm
I would say to only bring it up if they are losing money on it. There is also the part about keeping your organizations name in peoples mind aka PR that is to be taken into account.
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observer




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:13 pm
If your point is to help the organization, and you are not trying to put this woman out of a job, I think it's fine to tell them.

Is there another capacity in which they can employ this woman?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:21 pm
Measuring the success of a campaign is vital to any organization. I'm surprised this wasn't being done before.
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amother
Smokey


 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:22 pm
If you have been there a long time, I think you should bring it up. (If you haven't, maybe it ebbs and flows each year?). It is a non profit- they need all the money they can get and "wasting" it isn't helpful.
If someone's job isn't productive, maybe they should be tasked with a different job or let go. However, if you are sure it doesn't cost the company/org anything then maybe it is ok. Calling does help with publicity...and maybe one called person might go to your dinner etc. But you should look at all the costs, not just salary. Benefits? Extra tech support/computers? Could they move to a smaller, less expensive place without them?

TBH, I also am prejudiced- one place I worked had someone who was somewhat incompetent and pretty inefficient (plus did her own thing on work time...Facebook, Online shopping, calling her kids doctors and having LONG conversations...). I was the new hire so I couldn't say anything. It made my life harder and I saw $$ going out the window that could have helped the program/organization/school (being purposely vague). But she was there forever and needed the $$$...
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:23 pm
My point is really just to have less work for myself. It is a lot a lot of work for me, the telemarketing aspect of this raffle and like I said I think the telemarketing aspect is just covering its costs and not actually bringing in a profit for the organization. I would feel bad if this lady lost her job but I am obligated to put in so much extra work myself with no profit for the organization just so this lady can keep this job? To the person who said the PR aspect - that would be a good point but everyone gets the mailing so the organization will still be in peoples mind from that.
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agreer




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:26 pm
You should discuss it with a competent rav. It would be TERRIBLE to be the direct cause of the woman losing her job.

It isn't YOUR job to measure efficiency, is it? There's someone else responsible for that. You just keep track of what came in as part of what effort. I'd just fill in my spreadsheet/chart and let someone else (who probably gets paid more) decide on whose job is efficient.
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amazingmommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:33 pm
You can also ask your rav what he says. I would feel safest following that
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cm




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:35 pm
If you have a genuine concern that funds donated for charity are being used inefficiently, you should certainly get the numbers together and approach your manager about it.
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amother
Tan


 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:37 pm
amother wrote:
My point is really just to have less work for myself. It is a lot a lot of work for me, the telemarketing aspect of this raffle and like I said I think the telemarketing aspect is just covering its costs and not actually bringing in a profit for the organization. I would feel bad if this lady lost her job but I am obligated to put in so much extra work myself with no profit for the organization just so this lady can keep this job? To the person who said the PR aspect - that would be a good point but everyone gets the mailing so the organization will still be in peoples mind from that.


In my opinion, it makes a very big difference if you call instead of just sending out a mailing. When I get a call, even if I don't answer or can't make a contribution right then, I often will when I get a mailing from that organization later on.

Also, as long as she's making back her money isn't it worth it for her to have Parnassa?
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:38 pm
agreer wrote:
You should discuss it with a competent rav. It would be TERRIBLE to be the direct cause of the woman losing her job.

It isn't YOUR job to measure efficiency, is it? There's someone else responsible for that. You just keep track of what came in as part of what effort. I'd just fill in my spreadsheet/chart and let someone else (who probably gets paid more) decide on whose job is efficient.


The organization never kept track of what came in from the mailing and what came in from telemarketers. They just kept track of total revenue and total expenses of the raffle. This year I set it up to keep track of what raffles came through the mailing and what came through the telemarketers. My question is at the end of the raffle, should I approach the higher ups and say by the way this year I kept track of what came from what and show them the numbers. They will then see the numbers and see that the telemarketing campaign is not profitable and they can do what they want with the information.
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:43 pm
amother wrote:


Also, as long as she's making back her money isn't it worth it for her to have Parnassa?


She is not hurting the organization at all because she is making her money back. However, I am extremely busy and overwhelmed at work and this raffle is essentially silly and a waste of my time where I can be doing other more important things. I am doing this raffle basically to give this lady parnassah not to help the organization.
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:46 pm
The telemarketer campaign covers itself - meaning enough money comes in from telemarketing that pays for the telemarketers that wouldn't come in any other way.
And then there is even more money promised that would be a profit but is never collected?
Is the issue that what is pledged over the phone is never fulfilled? Maybe that part has to be fixed - if people would pay their bills it would be a profit for the organization. Maybe the billing and collecting have to be made more efficient? Can the telemarketers be put in charge of collecting the promised money?

I've been very dissapointed with how some non profits handle their billing for phone promised pledges. I paid up one immediately and the check was cashed. I still get numerous mailings reminding me about my pledge, I've returned proof of the check, I've called and spoken to people and still get mailings. I won't donate again there because the amount they have spent on mailings and phone calls at this point is probably covered by my pledge.
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questioner




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:48 pm
I assume that all the people that donated because of a telemarketing took for granted that their money, minus minimal overhead, was going to tzedaka. Had they known that they were just covering the costs of the telemarketing would they have donated?

While I would not want anyone to lose their job, tzedaka money is sacrosanct, and should be treated as such, and you should be commended for doing the analysis, assuming that it is correct, on where the return on investment is.

What is the skillset of this woman? I would approach the higher-ups with what you see, as well as a suggestion that maybe Mrs. Schwartz would do an excellent job calling corporate sponsors for raffles, organizing a different event etc.


Last edited by questioner on Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:05 pm
amother wrote:
She is not hurting the organization at all because she is making her money back. However, I am extremely busy and overwhelmed at work and this raffle is essentially silly and a waste of my time where I can be doing other more important things. I am doing this raffle basically to give this lady parnassah not to help the organization.

I think you're wrong. Your assessment is wrong. What you're trying to do makes sense and your organization should be doing it, but there is actually a science to tracking the efficacy of different marketing campaigns and you don't have that specialized knowledge.

Personally, when we get calls from telemarketers, we will listen to their pitch and if we are interested in donating we say that we don't donate over the phone but if they send us something in the mail, we will do what we can. Then we look out for the mailing. In your informal survey, our donation would go down as a response to the mailing but it's actually a response to the telemarketing.

If you were actually motivated by your dedication to the organization and had it's best interest at heart I would suggest that you learn more in the interest of pursuing your investigation. But as you say, your sole motivation is to reduce your workload. Considering your personal bias coupled with the flaws in your methodology, I think you should drop it.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:20 pm
IMO, presentng the bosses with the facts, devoid of any personal opinion, is appropriate.

Fair: "Here are the numbers for income and expense in the raffle. Mailing expense. Mailing income. Telemarketing expense. Telemarketing income."

Probably problematic: "I'd like to bring to your attention that the money we spend on telemarketing swallows pretty much everything we make from the calls. Are you sure you want to keep doing that?"

Let them be the ones to interpret the information, and make decisions based on it.
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:23 pm
imasinger wrote:
IMO, presentng the bosses with the facts, devoid of any personal opinion, is appropriate.

Fair: "Here are the numbers for income and expense in the raffle. Mailing expense. Mailing income. Telemarketing expense. Telemarketing income."

Let them be the ones to interpret the information, and make decisions based on it.

Problem is her figures are misleading because she does not know how to assess telemarketing income correctly. Her methodology is wrong.
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:33 pm
5*Mom wrote:
I think you're wrong. Your assessment is wrong. What you're trying to do makes sense and your organization should be doing it, but there is actually a science to tracking the efficacy of different marketing campaigns and you don't have that specialized knowledge.

Personally, when we get calls from telemarketers, we will listen to their pitch and if we are interested in donating we say that we don't donate over the phone but if they send us something in the mail, we will do what we can. Then we look out for the mailing. In your informal survey, our donation would go down as a response to the mailing but it's actually a response to the telemarketing.

If you were actually motivated by your dedication to the organization and had it's best interest at heart I would suggest that you learn more in the interest of pursuing your investigation. But as you say, your sole motivation is to reduce your workload. Considering your personal bias coupled with the flaws in your methodology, I think you should drop it.


I am well aware that my system is not perfect. However I am not making any decision here. When the higher ups who are more experienced in marketing than me have my paper, they know that some people say send an envelope and those would be recorded as mail as opposed to caller. There is a margin of error here as there is in any survey. When people say send an envelope that is recorded. The total number of send requests can be used to make an educated guess on how many entries are really caller as opposed to mail. My question is simply after I kept track of what is pledge and what is mail can I give the information to the higher ups and say by the way I kept track of mail and callers separate this year and here are the numbers. The higher ups can tell me thank you and throw my paper in the trash or they can look at it and match up against the expenses and using their knowledge of marketing decide if its worth it or not to keep up with the telemarketing campaign. Is it wrong to give the higher ups this piece of paper with the numbers knowing full well that this lady may lose her job if the higher ups decide to pull the plug on the telemarketing part of the raffle?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:39 pm
Doesn't the nonprofit code their direct mail to keep it separate from mail due to telemarketing efforts?
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goodmorning




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:41 pm
I can't understand why this is being made to be a case of your job vs. her job as opposed to an obligation to spend donated funds as responsibly as possible.
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