My 4 yr old is too smart, mature and chutzpadig. Help!

amother

Olive

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 4:26 pm

Baruch Hashem for all the blessings. My 4 year old is a very unique child. I have 5 children and he is very similar to an older child of mine. These kids are extemely, out of the ordinary mature and sharp. Very perceptive to nuances in tone of voice from a very young age. Very verbal... very sensitive...If you have one like this you now what I mean.
Here's the problem. He tends to be bratty and chutzpadig (happens to all children) but I find that its hard for me to discipline him. He always has an answer.For example, kids sometimes say, you're a mean mommy. That's his new favorite thing to say. When I tell him "its ok if you think that, but we still have to do such and such" . He says, "no its not ok!" And he gets angry and tries to smack me.
What would you do? When I put him in time out he runs away.

gp2.0

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 4:55 pm

My older DD is like this. My younger DD is polar opposite, so easygoing and nothing fazes her. BH for them both. Smile

My first step would be to reframe my thinking patterns. If I'm dealing with a very young child who isn't even developmentally capable of advanced thinking processes like chutzpah and I'm assigning labels like bratty and chutzpadik, something is wrong with my thinking patterns. I'm not judging you, I've been there, I've thought things like "gosh why do I have to deal with this bratty behavior" when she decided to have a temper tantrum on the street and laid down on the sidewalk and screamed and people were staring at me.*

My second step would be to problem solve and try to defuse situations that are frustrating to him before he gets frustrated. For example, if he always gets frustrated while getting dressed in the morning, I would streamline that process, add routines and take some other steps to ensure that it's not a frustrating process for him. *So for example, the solution to temper tantrums in the street was solved by bringing along a snack when I picked her up from daycare.

When my kids smack me I just use my Scary Mommy face and say "NO smacking Mommy or anyone else!" in my low, deep Scary Mommy voice. I wonder if that's right or wrong. It's my equivalent of a smack, only used in very specific situations like running into the street, etc.

When I used to use time out I would keep walking the toddler back in for the minute or two that I kept them there. However I rarely use it because as I became more aware I noticed the triggers that led to extreme behavior (hunger, exhaustion, etc.) and honestly I'm not going to punish a child for being tired. Now we do more like "I think you need some space, do you want to go to your room for some quiet relaxing time?"

Every situation gets its own type of response but on the whole the solution to keeping sensitive kids from getting frustrated is to figure out what triggers them and try very hard to avoid those triggers, while at the same time teaching them to be flexible and roll with the punches.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 8:20 pm

I must say that title was extremely triggering. I was that smart 3-4-5 year old mature way beyond my age. My mother loved to show me off and my smart comments but when I talked back to her she was at a loss and complained that I was too chutzpadik and she can't handle me.
To this day she claims I have personality issues and she couldn't raise me.
I still bear the scars.
Behind those smart comments is a little baby boy. Remember that. Don't treat him as if he's older don't let his speech fool you. He likely isn't emotionally more advanced than his age group. Love him, give him lots of attention, and don't let his comebacks throw you off. Assert your authority. Calmly give consequences for misbehavior and turn a deaf ear to any smart retorts. So he said no it's not ok... He's the little boy and you're the mother. Get on with your day.
Good luck

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 9:30 pm

My 4yo is exactly like yours but because of tei disconnect between his maturity level and his age he gets quite anxious at times , has fear etc.( he understands things way beyond his age but is still limited bc he's still 4... And that leads to fears ).
I find that time out doesn't woek with these kids . I'm still searching for the right way to be mechanech this kid but what I've found out so far is thar they need extra love and lots of patience and attention. we tend to forget how young they are because they're so expressive but underneath it all- he's still 4 and is NOT trying to manipulate you or annoy you ( PPL in my life are telling me that he's manipulatinf us and outsmarts us - I don't let them get to me , he's 4 YO and wants my love and approval and not to manipulate me ...).
Does he also say he doesn't love you ? Your reply would be perfect for such a case - that's ok, I still love you . He will know you will always love him no matter what.
But I wonder if when you reply like this to "you're a nean mommy", you make him confused - you're telling him it's ok to be mean and since he's very smart it doesn't make sense to him. Maybe say- I'm not being mean, you need to this or I'm sorry you feel this way somerimes mommy needs to force you to ...

He's not trying to be chUzpa- he's just young enough to not be able to filter his thoughts. Let go, he will grow up a bit and learn.

gold21

Fri, Feb 12 2016, 12:11 am

amother wrote:

This advice sounds spot-on to me.

amother

Olive

Fri, Feb 12 2016, 12:41 pm

Thank you for the replies.
To the amother who wrote that he is not manipulating and she has a son like him too, I wanted to tell you that you are very right and I am happy you are not listening to those foolish ppl. As I mentioned in my initial post I have an older daughter who was like this child (still is) and my husband was sure she is trying to be manipulative and it didn't go so well at all. (kind of like gold21 wrote about her trauma.)
Truth is, it is very hard to raise such children, but it isn't easy being one of them either. Many ppl dont realize that despite seeming very mature and smart they are just kids. That's why I am writing for advice. It can be very tricky with this breed.
Whenever he tells me I am not your friend anymore I say that mommy always loves you and is still your friend. I hear what the amother poster was saying about me saying "it is ok", when he says "you're a mean mommy.."
He also tells me lol, "why do you always speak not nicely to me?" when I say something in frustration like, "whaaaat?"when all the children are calling me at once.
It's very tricky with these in tune children. Because then you need to answer their questions. Yes he is only 4 which is a baby, but he asked a valid question. Why am I saying something in such a frustrated tone. Can he understand the answer, that Im overwhelmed and frustrated, obviously not. what do I say to those type of questions?
All your input is most appreciated!

tichellady

Fri, Feb 12 2016, 2:18 pm

I don't think time out works for kids like yours. You need other methods for discipline. I think redirection or letting him start over may be better. You can make a silly start over game where you both go backwards in time. You should also try to minimize rules for him if possible, try to stick to the most important ones. Sometimes you can address the mean mommy comment but other times just ignore it and let it go. I don't think you need to correct him every time and make it into a conversation. He's pretty little and does feel that you are being mean- and doesn't get that you just care about him.

You sound like a great mom!

amother

Lawngreen

Sat, Feb 13 2016, 3:47 pm

Sounds like it is negative attention and you should ignore it completely.

Don't even punish, just completely ignore the "mean mommy" and the hitting. You can even do what Rabbi Brezak calls Active Ignoring - if he hits you, turn so that he hits your back and say "Wow, this is such a good massage. Thank you!"

He is trying to push your buttons and get you upset, so don't let him and it will stop.

anon because I've discussed Rabbi Brezak's classes a lot in real life. They are amazing!

5*Mom

Sat, Feb 13 2016, 4:40 pm

amother wrote:

This message is terribly confusing, not to mention provocative to an already frustrated child. If you're going to ignore, just ignore.

5*Mom

Sat, Feb 13 2016, 4:43 pm

amother wrote:

Why am I saying something in such a frustrated tone. Can he understand the answer, that Im overwhelmed and frustrated, obviously not. what do I say to those type of questions?

You say I'm sorry.

Someday he's going to be hungry, tired, frustrated and when you ask him why he's speaking to you in a tone, you won't want him to excuse himself. You'll want him to say he's sorry and change his tone. Model it for him now.

amother

Lawngreen

Sat, Feb 13 2016, 5:07 pm

5*Mom wrote:

This message is terribly confusing, not to mention provocative to an already frustrated child. If you're going to ignore, just ignore.

This is when it's too hard for you to ignore.

Some people think they are ignoring, but their body language (which their kids, especially very perceptive kids, pick up on instantly) screams: You are pushing my buttons! I am getting frustrated/nervous/anxious from your behavior!!

In this case, you have to Actively do something to Ignore. You can sing your favorite song, think about a funny story, really anything that takes your mind off of what your kid is doing to try to get negative attention from you.

Making what they are doing into something positive or funny works brilliantly in both distracting you and showing your child that you will not give them negative attention, but rather positive attention.
Do it a few times and the negative behavior will stop.

Tried and true.

gold21

Sat, Feb 13 2016, 9:33 pm

amother wrote:

Wasnt my trauma Wink

I quoted a post by Amother who was writing about her experience.
Anyway.... lots of luck to you!

amother

Olive

Sun, Feb 14 2016, 10:16 pm

Gold21 I realized after I posted that it wasn't you. Sorry about that. That poster was anonymous.
To the poster that suggested that I apologize after he asks me why I am speaking not nicely, that is actually what I do. Sometimes it feels funny to be apologizing to a 4 yr old..Thats another problem with these smarty pants kids. They always say true points, but if you always acknowledge that they are right they start to think they are adults..

spikta

Mon, Feb 15 2016, 1:17 am

Oh course your smart sensitive 4 years old can understand that when you're stressed and frustrated then you respond in a less than ideal way.

I think it's an exceptional teaching moment, and it's wonderful that your child is asking. Even if he was just being contrary, try taking his questions seriously. You can teach a kid a lot about communication and relationships by discussing your own. 'I yelled because everyone was talking at once and I can't think straight when that happens' 'I had a bad day and was worried about other things and that made me speak not nicely. Remember that time when you had a bad day at school and then fought with your brother all afternoon?'

You don't have to give a detailed answer on the spot. You can discuss it later too. Cool off for a few minutes, deal with the crisises and go back and answer him.
The ability to look at your behavior, analyze it and try to make it better is an amazing skill and it sounds like he's ripe to learn it from you.

5*Mom

Mon, Feb 15 2016, 4:44 am

spikta wrote:

The obvious problem with excusing mommy's bad behavior due to a bad day is that junior was likely punished for his bad behavior, regardless of his bad day. As a parent, we need to do 2 things: empathize more and punish less when our children are having a rough time of it; and work harder at modeling self-regulation even when we are having a rough time of it. And of course model owning up to it when we make mistakes. (Okay, I guess that's more than 2 things Wink

)