How to explain when it's ok and when he's going too far

amother

Royalblue

Fri, Feb 19 2016, 11:06 am

Ds is in 4th grade. Because grades 6-8 end an hour after the rest of the school, 4th grade is the second to oldest class on the school bus. Ds has a friend who is a very nice kid most of the day, but is taking advantage of being one of the biggest kids on the bus by bullying the younger kids. While ds is is good friends with him at school and around the neighborhood, he tends to stand up verbally for the kids who are being bullied, which I'm happy about, since I don't want him to be the kind of kid who minds his own business when people are being hurt. Today he actually got physical, which I'm not too happy about. Ds came home without his yarmulke and said, "I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that I lost my yarmulke in a fight. The good news is that I won the fight." Of course, I asked him to explain, hoping he would be talking about the kind of play fighting boys do all the time. He said that his friend was bullying a 2nd grader and took the kid's knapsack away. Ds took it from his friend and gave it back to the 2nd grader. His friend responded by knocking off his yarmulke. According to ds, after that, he knocked the friend off his seat and onto the floor and that ended the fight.
I was someone concerned about this (they're still good friends and will be meeting tomorrow like they do every Shabbos), so I called the kid's parent to hear the other side of the story. The friend admits to fighting with a 2nd grader and felt that the whole bus was cheering for the 2nd grader to win the fight. He said that ds hit him first before he took off the yarmulke, and I guess his friend hitting him in front of the entire school bus was too much.
Don't get me wrong. I'm happy that ds got the knapsack back for the second grader. I don't want him to sit back and let other kids get bullied. At the same time, I want him to understand that he can't hit someone and knock him off his seat and then brag about winning the fight. Where do you draw the line between defending others, self defense, and unnecessary force?

amother

Royalblue

Sat, Feb 20 2016, 4:24 pm

Normally I am proud but pushing someone off a seat on a moving bus is dangerous. Officially, the 5th graders are bus monitors. Most years, that's not a problem, but according to ds, the monitors are making things worse by encouraging the fighting and cheering for whoever they want to win. I'm going to talk to the principal tomorrow. I think this situation is getting out of hand and becoming too dangerous. I don't want it on my head if a kid goes through the windshield ch'v.

WhatFor

Sat, Feb 20 2016, 4:36 pm

Telling the school sounds like a good idea, since the situation as it is seems to be heading slightly Lord of the Flies. Another thing- are you close enough to the other boy's mother that you think talking to her would be effective?
On the other hand, I hope you're proud of your son and are patting yourself on the back! You must have done something right to have your son defending the more vulnerable children from bullies.

amother

Royalblue

Sat, Feb 20 2016, 6:20 pm

The parents of the other boy are aware of the situation as there were several times this year that their child was kicked off the bus for a week and had to be picked up. They are very concerned since he never used to act like this and suspect that part of the problem is that he used to be best friends with one of the fifth graders who is now bossing him around on the bus. Also, they are concerned that the fifth graders are encouraging the fighting. They do talk to him about his behavior, which is probably why he didn't flatten ds like a pancake. (Ds is a tiny kid, smaller than most 3rd graders, while his friend is the biggest kid in the class.)